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Posted by cjs150 - Wed 09 Apr 2014 13:41
Could be nice for an HTPC. under £35 for the M/B about £40 for the CPU, some cheap ram, an SSD, case (total £200). Not bad if it performs.
Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH - Wed 09 Apr 2014 13:46
Scan has two motherboards for under £30:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/gigabyte-ga-am1m-s2h-amd-am1-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-pcie-20-d-sub-hdmi-matx
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-am1i-a-am1-s-am1-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-pcie-20-%28x16%29-vga-dvi-d-hdmi-mini-itx
Posted by 3dcandy - Wed 09 Apr 2014 13:50
And a quick look on Amazon reveals that the 5350 is a 2gig/25 watt/4 core chip for under £40

http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-AD5350JAHMBOX-Extensions-Virtualization-Technology/dp/B00IOMFAQ0
Posted by 3dcandy - Wed 09 Apr 2014 14:26
I might be able to use one of these in a NAS/Server box which my current Atom based box suffers sometimes due to lack of performance.
Or even a big money box masquerading as a MAME machine :p
Posted by scaryjim - Wed 09 Apr 2014 14:28
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Scan has two motherboards for under £30:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-am1i-a-am1-s-am1-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-pcie-20-%28x16%29-vga-dvi-d-hdmi-mini-itx

Woah woah woah woah woah.

That's a socketed mITX board for £27? :o

Well played AMD, well played…
Posted by 3dcandy - Wed 09 Apr 2014 14:35
scaryjim
Woah woah woah woah woah.

That's a socketed mITX board for £27? :o

Well played AMD, well played…

Yup - just over £26. 2 SATA ports as well. The ASRock one would make a nice NAS/Server box with 4 x SATA ports too, though you'd have to use software RAID
Posted by 3dcandy - Wed 09 Apr 2014 14:36
http://www.kikatek.com/P439591/AM1B-ITX-ASRock-AM1B-ITX-Motherboard-AM1-Socket?source=froogle&gclid=CI_atP3C070CFQcTwwodB4YAfA
Posted by Agent - Wed 09 Apr 2014 14:44
Can't wait to see the load/idle power draw on these :)
Posted by scaryjim - Wed 09 Apr 2014 14:55
Agent
Can't wait to see the load/idle power draw on these :)

CAT's started compiling a review thread in hardware:

http://forums.hexus.net/cpus/319797-am1-kabini-review-thread.html

tbh, we won't get any realistic power draw figures until someone does a review with a < 100W pico - at wall draws are < 40W, which on the PSUs most people are using are < 10% load so likely to be very inefficient….
Posted by mtyson - Wed 09 Apr 2014 14:57
GIGABYTE Announces New AM1 Series Motherboards
Press release here.
Posted by babylon100 - Wed 09 Apr 2014 15:18
Tell you what is really great about that Asus board, They have been a bit smart and stuck a serial port on it, There are so many hobbyists out there that still use old slow computers just because they want a printer or serial port.
Posted by scaryjim - Wed 09 Apr 2014 15:31
mtyson
GIGABYTE Announces New AM1 Series Motherboards
Press release here.

The S2P variant appears to be specifically aimed at industrial use and/or the maker community - parallel, serial, and PCIc? very retro ;)

Speaking of, it looks like Kabini @ 2.05GHz has about the same performance as Athlon X2 at 2.1Ghz. Makes my X2 4050e pretty much redundant :(
Posted by shaithis - Wed 09 Apr 2014 15:46
Typical, caved-in and ordered parts for my second HTPC today…..off to cancel quickly!
Posted by DanceswithUnix - Wed 09 Apr 2014 16:25
scaryjim
CAT's started compiling a review thread in hardware:

http://forums.hexus.net/cpus/319797-am1-kabini-review-thread.html

tbh, we won't get any realistic power draw figures until someone does a review with a < 100W pico - at wall draws are < 40W, which on the PSUs most people are using are < 10% load so likely to be very inefficient….

Wonder how careful they will be with idle draw though. If these are aimed at really low end case/psu setups as part of keeping the cost down, then cheap is going to win over efficient so they might just not bother.
Posted by HalloweenJack - Wed 09 Apr 2014 17:17
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-AD5350JAHMBOX-Extensions-Virtualization-Technology/dp/B00IOMFAQ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397052191&sr=8-1&keywords=athlon+5350


under £40 for the top end Athlon quad core.
Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH - Wed 09 Apr 2014 18:55
scaryjim
CAT's started compiling a review thread in hardware:

http://forums.hexus.net/cpus/319797-am1-kabini-review-thread.html

tbh, we won't get any realistic power draw figures until someone does a review with a < 100W pico - at wall draws are < 40W, which on the PSUs most people are using are < 10% load so likely to be very inefficient….

http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/5330/27/amd-am1-vs-intel-bay-trail-d-review-goedkope-desktopplatforms-stroomverbruik-idle

They used a 150W pico-PSU and the system consumed under 10W at the wall when idle.

This motherboard was £21.99:

http://www.ebuyer.com/store/Components/cat/Motherboards-AMD/subcat/Socket-AM1-AMD?limit=30&page=1
Posted by shaithis - Wed 09 Apr 2014 19:42
Yup, just re-doing my spec and the case and psu are going to cost more than the cpu and mobo….
Posted by Agent - Wed 09 Apr 2014 20:43
10W idle…..

I think I'm in love.

Now….undervolting? :D
Posted by Goobley - Wed 09 Apr 2014 20:52
It's getting to the point where your screen and other peripherals are going to dominate the processor in power use… I know that my non-LED 22" screen (at home and almost 6 years old now) consumes 60W…
Posted by mtyson - Wed 09 Apr 2014 22:33
MSI releases AM1 socketed Kabini Mini-ITX AM1I motherboard
Posted by Biscuit - Thu 10 Apr 2014 00:02
If only there was one with a bucket load of SATA ports! PCI-E x4 is good for a storage drive controller card mind :)
Posted by flufflogic - Thu 10 Apr 2014 00:14
Good for streaming and video, then? Wonder if it'll support 3D output for blu-rays…
Posted by tonyd223 - Thu 10 Apr 2014 12:19
HP Proliant Microserver G7 after rebate is £100, so you get a dual core processor, 2Gb RAM, 250 Gb HDD, case, power supply, motherboard - you put a discrete graphics card in that and it makes much more sense…
Posted by nepenthes - Thu 10 Apr 2014 12:45
Seems to be very good for a budget build, one for the parents maybe ;)
Posted by HalloweenJack - Thu 10 Apr 2014 13:03
and why is the review not testing against an ATOM - the i5`s in the review cost more than the entire itx build would!
Posted by DanceswithUnix - Thu 10 Apr 2014 15:35
Biscuit
If only there was one with a bucket load of SATA ports! PCI-E x4 is good for a storage drive controller card mind :)

Asrock are doing ITX boards with 4 SATA ports which would be enough for me. I really want mATX board though so I can plug a couple of cards in.

For £35 Newegg have the one that can take an power brick plugged in, no idea what their UK shipping costs though. Anyone tried them yet?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157491
Posted by mercyground - Thu 10 Apr 2014 15:48
Newegg ship here now. (seems to be 10-15quid depending on time)
Posted by kompukare - Thu 10 Apr 2014 16:17
DanceswithUnix
Asrock are doing ITX boards with 4 SATA ports which would be enough for me. I really want mATX board though so I can plug a couple of cards in.

For £35 Newegg have the one that can take an power brick plugged in, no idea what their UK shipping costs though. Anyone tried them yet?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157491

Available in the UK too. Already mentioned in Cat's epic thread:
http://forums.hexus.net/cpus/241925-amd-piledriver-chitchat-28.html#post3248809

Think the newegg price will the be same once you've added postage (and would you get hit with VAT and custom on top of that?). Nah, those comments on the newegg thread are spot on I think. Newegg's expansion to the UK and Australia must be something to impress their board or shareholders. See them leaving faster than Bestbuy (although how can they leave if they never even got here?)
Posted by 3dcandy - Thu 10 Apr 2014 17:06
Typical - can't find it now but there was a couple of places with pre-orders for the ASRock mobo @ £35
I do find it interesting that the biggest complaint seems to be the odd 2 hole mounting mechanism that is a bit bizarre. Also, that ASRock has a mini-pcie slot but I can't see where the screw holes are to screw it down…
Posted by DanceswithUnix - Thu 10 Apr 2014 17:09
Well hopefully that will settle down to about £40 here in a week or so.

Really cheap cases do come with a PSU built in, but I think I would rather avoid using one of those ;)

http://www.ebuyer.com/501593-cit-mtx-005b-black-mini-itx-desktop-case-300w-psu-cscitmtx005b
Posted by keithwalton - Thu 10 Apr 2014 21:12
Cheap yes, cheerful maybe, can I find a use for one unlikely.

As they say you get what you pay for and you don't get much cpu grunt in that, would be interested to see how it fairs to the latest arm and atom cores, not good i'm suspecting
Posted by wasabi - Thu 10 Apr 2014 23:41
Finally. APUs at the right price and TDP.
Posted by HalloweenJack - Fri 11 Apr 2014 00:08
keithwalton
Cheap yes, cheerful maybe, can I find a use for one unlikely.

As they say you get what you pay for and you don't get much cpu grunt in that, would be interested to see how it fairs to the latest arm and atom cores, not good i'm suspecting

it kills an atom…..
Posted by mack_5991 - Fri 11 Apr 2014 01:12
if only they would make their IPC higher on non APU units. How hard is it to switch to smaller manufacturing size ?
Posted by bluevaping - Fri 11 Apr 2014 04:50
Athlon 5350+750TI > than A10 7850k and about the same price in a build!
Looking at 3D Mark on Hexus.net default. A10 7850k =1490, Athlon 5350+750TI= 3359

I didn't have to use the same amount or faster ram in Athlon build because 750Ti has good VRAM and Speed. This build may not work for everyone because they want their gaming computer to be their main computer and do work with it. I have a work laptop not built for gaming. And I am not a huge gamer. I would just fire this up to play a game and that's it.
Posted by Brewster0101 - Fri 11 Apr 2014 09:44
ASRock AM1B-ITX still has ps2 socket. Would have thought it would have been better for two more usb ports.
Posted by shaithis - Fri 11 Apr 2014 09:56
flufflogic
Good for streaming and video, then? Wonder if it'll support 3D output for blu-rays…

I'll be testing that myself tonight once I've built my system.
Posted by kompukare - Fri 11 Apr 2014 10:54
Brewster0101
ASRock AM1B-ITX still has ps2 socket. Would have thought it would have been better for two more usb ports.

Nah, I like me some PS/2 ports. Never have driver support issues, are (theoretically) capable of proper n-key rollover and pretty much guaranteed to supported by all OS and any bootdisc and so on. Plus, on some motherboards a PS/2 keyboard can be set to act as a power button.
Posted by Biscuit - Fri 11 Apr 2014 12:33
I was looking at that ASRock with the 19v input. Usually if you are powering your PC from a brick you would use a PicoPSU to split the power off to the hard drives, how would you do that with the ASRock? Are you going to end up needing a separate brick for distribution?
Posted by DanceswithUnix - Fri 11 Apr 2014 13:05
Biscuit
I was looking at that ASRock with the 19v input. Usually if you are powering your PC from a brick you would use a PicoPSU to split the power off to the hard drives, how would you do that with the ASRock? Are you going to end up needing a separate brick for distribution?

I believe you can pull a few watts from the motherboard, enough to power a laptop drive. Given cost is everything and the cheapest new drives you can buy are 2.5“ 320G or 500G drives, that seems enough.

Edit to add: Asrock site lists among the internal connectors:

- 1 x SATA Power Connector

and in accessories:

- 1 x SATA Power Cable

And another edit to further add:

The downloadable manual isn't clear what is included or how much power you can draw, but under the bit describing the use of a 19v power brick it says ”please use the onboard SATA power connector to get the power for HDDs". So plural, but still no exact figure.
Posted by billybear - Fri 11 Apr 2014 14:15
Yep, I'm thinking HTPC/NAS build with Plex. Any chance of that Windows with Bing to run on this or for some OEM to make a sub £120/£150 build?
Posted by Biscuit - Fri 11 Apr 2014 14:57
DanceswithUnix
I believe you can pull a few watts from the motherboard, enough to power a laptop drive. Given cost is everything and the cheapest new drives you can buy are 2.5“ 320G or 500G drives, that seems enough.

Edit to add: Asrock site lists among the internal connectors:

- 1 x SATA Power Connector

and in accessories:

- 1 x SATA Power Cable

And another edit to further add:

The downloadable manual isn't clear what is included or how much power you can draw, but under the bit describing the use of a 19v power brick it says ”please use the onboard SATA power connector to get the power for HDDs". So plural, but still no exact figure.

Thanks for that. Given there is 4 SATA ports it would be interesting if you could drive 4 hard drives from that SATA power port. I would still be hesitant given ASRocks reputation with power circuitry on some of its FM2 boards, definitely let someone else be the guinea pig methinks!
Posted by watercooled - Fri 11 Apr 2014 17:28
@Hexus: Cheers for running those discrete card benchmarks; they're really interesting yet no-one else seems to have done them yet!

Quick note though - I only spotted that review by chance, since it's been added on to the preview page. An in-forum news-bar bump might get it some more views?

Something else which caught my attention in that review is how well it compares to the uber-expensive i5-Y, in terms of both performance and power efficiency!
Posted by DanceswithUnix - Fri 11 Apr 2014 19:24
Biscuit
Thanks for that. Given there is 4 SATA ports it would be interesting if you could drive 4 hard drives from that SATA power port. I would still be hesitant given ASRocks reputation with power circuitry on some of its FM2 boards, definitely let someone else be the guinea pig methinks!

Knew I read it somewhere. From Ian Cutress, the Anandtech motherboard reviewer:

“ASRock have told me that the SATA power should power one device, maybe two depending on power draw. So if you need an ODD, that limits storage to PCIe or mini-PCIe cards.”

Quote from the comments section of http://www.anandtech.com/show/7869/asrocks-am1-kabini-motherboards-announced-including-19v-dcin-model
Posted by Biscuit - Fri 11 Apr 2014 19:33
Well thats a bit of a bummer, guess a picoPSU is still the way to go!
Posted by DanceswithUnix - Fri 11 Apr 2014 20:22
Biscuit
Well thats a bit of a bummer, guess a picoPSU is still the way to go!

PicoPSU seems a very expensive way of powering such a cheap system.

Something like this http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=458&area=en where the fan only spins if things get rather hot would seem a good way forward. About £60 cheaper, probably less efficient but if it burns through an extra 5W how low would it take to get through £60 of leccy? :D

That one only comes with 3 sata power plugs, would have to use one of the Molex plugs to do the last HDD.

Edit to add: Yes I am considering building a new server with one of these, so just putting out my thoughts so far. My current box sits there with all 4 cores of the FM1 cpu at 800MHz and loaded about 20%, so I think one of these would do fine.
Posted by Rob_B - Fri 11 Apr 2014 20:44
DanceswithUnix
…About £60 cheaper, probably less efficient but if it burns through an extra 5W how low would it take to get through £60 of leccy? :D

5W/day ~ 90p/month so 5.5yrs!
Posted by Biscuit - Fri 11 Apr 2014 21:52
DanceswithUnix
PicoPSU seems a very expensive way of powering such a cheap system.

Something like this http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=458&area=en where the fan only spins if things get rather hot would seem a good way forward. About £60 cheaper, probably less efficient but if it burns through an extra 5W how low would it take to get through £60 of leccy? :D

That one only comes with 3 sata power plugs, would have to use one of the Molex plugs to do the last HDD.

Edit to add: Yes I am considering building a new server with one of these, so just putting out my thoughts so far. My current box sits there with all 4 cores of the FM1 cpu at 800MHz and loaded about 20%, so I think one of these would do fine.

Only expensive if you don't currently have an unused picoPSU ;)

That is a very good companion for these kind of systems though!
Posted by DanceswithUnix - Sat 12 Apr 2014 08:05
Biscuit
Only expensive if you don't currently have an unused picoPSU ;)

That is a very good companion for these kind of systems though!

Ahh, the economics of “it's on the shelf over there” rather change things :D

I notice Amazon now have the 5350 at £39.99, so under the £40 mark. If I find the right motherboard I am so getting one :D
Posted by scaryjim - Mon 14 Apr 2014 16:25
DanceswithUnix
… if it burns through an extra 5W how low would it take to get through £60 of leccy? …

I'm impressed hexus managed to get a measured draw of 15W from the wall, tbh - the whole system is running at < 2% of the rated draw of the supply, so should be tanking in efficiency terms. Even with a 300W supply you'll still be talking < 5%. I have no idea what kind of efficiency rating you'd expect to see with draws that low nowadays…. :O_o1:

But yeah, expected saving from a 1W draw 24/7 for a year is around £1 (probably a bit more now, prices have gone up a few percent since I last checked that rule-of-thumb). So it might be worth spending £10 - £20 to get better efficiency out of your PSU for a 24/7 - but probably not £60. it should be easy enough to pick up an 80W - 90W DC PSU with power brick for ~ £40 though, at which point it's probably worth the investment…
Posted by hardflipman - Tue 15 Apr 2014 09:37
I was slightly disappointed with the GPU results. I quite fancied replacing my 3ghz p4 + hd5450 that sits under the telly as it's pretty sluggish to say the least in xbmc. i also thought it would be good if my son could play minecraft on it as i'm fed up with him using my pc or laptop!
so, any idea how this would perform (the 5350 that is) and if indeed the graphics performance would be boosted by using my hd5450?

cheers
Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH - Tue 15 Apr 2014 09:41
hardflipman
I was slightly disappointed with the GPU results. I quite fancied replacing my 3ghz p4 + hd5450 that sits under the telly as it's pretty sluggish to say the least in xbmc. i also thought it would be good if my son could play minecraft on it as i'm fed up with him using my pc or laptop!
so, any idea how this would perform (the 5350 that is) and if indeed the graphics performance would be boosted by using my hd5450?

cheers

The IGP is superior to your HD5450. Instead of 80 VLIW5 cores the Athlon 5350 uses 128 GCN cores.

This review tests MC on the Athlon 5350:

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1970/pg1/amd-am1-platform-with-athlon-5350-and-msi-am1i-motherboard-review-full-article.html
Posted by scaryjim - Tue 15 Apr 2014 11:50
hardflipman
… I quite fancied replacing my 3ghz p4 + hd5450 that sits under the telly as it's pretty sluggish to say the least in xbmc. i also thought it would be good if my son could play minecraft on it as i'm fed up with him using my pc or laptop!
so, any idea how this would perform (the 5350 that is) and if indeed the graphics performance would be boosted by using my hd5450?

As CAT says above, the IGP is faster than the 5450 by some distance. There's a hexus members' 3D Mark thread here: http://forums.hexus.net/pc-hardware-components/275249-3dmark-13-score-thread.html that shows a 5450 paired with a 3GHz Phenom II X4 scores 225 in Fire Strike, while the Athlon 5350 scores 402.

But if you're seriously running that rig with a 3GHz P4, I'm not surprised it feels slow. A single thread chip based on decade old technology? Forget it. An Athon 5350 will run rings round that old rig on both the graphics AND the CPU. And at not much over £60 for the CPU and motherboard, it's a bit of a no brainer IMNSHO ;)
Posted by hardflipman - Tue 15 Apr 2014 16:14
scaryjim
As CAT says above, the IGP is faster than the 5450 by some distance. There's a hexus members' 3D Mark thread here: http://forums.hexus.net/pc-hardware-components/275249-3dmark-13-score-thread.html that shows a 5450 paired with a 3GHz Phenom II X4 scores 225 in Fire Strike, while the Athlon 5350 scores 402.

But if you're seriously running that rig with a 3GHz P4, I'm not surprised it feels slow. A single thread chip based on decade old technology? Forget it. An Athon 5350 will run rings round that old rig on both the graphics AND the CPU. And at not much over £60 for the CPU and motherboard, it's a bit of a no brainer IMNSHO ;)
excellent news! only slight damper is the fact that i'd need a case and PSU as well. unless i can somehow convert the PSU connector and just rest the motherboard inside the case! it's an hp dc7100 SFF that i got for free a while ago… https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hp+dc7100+sff&newwindow=1&safe=active&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YkxNU6TALYiphAeoloGwDA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1268&bih=876
Posted by scaryjim - Tue 15 Apr 2014 16:18
There's a case + PSU I recommended in another thread that might work and only adds £56 - have a look at http://forums.hexus.net/review-my-build/320085-low-cost-server-build-good-shopping-list.html#post3252521 which should give you some ideas :)
Posted by watercooled - Tue 15 Apr 2014 17:26
Not to mention you could get some pretty significant power savings depending how much the system is used.
Posted by spark9990 - Wed 16 Apr 2014 22:59
Can anyone recommend a small case with 2 Space PCie expansion slot?

Thanks in advance.
Posted by xslavic - Thu 24 Apr 2014 20:45
scaryjim
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Scan has two motherboards for under £30:

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-am1i-a-am1-s-am1-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-pcie-20-%28x16%29-vga-dvi-d-hdmi-mini-itx

Woah woah woah woah woah.

That's a socketed mITX board for £27? :o

Well played AMD, well played…

I personally like the integrated APU on the motherboard,its still decodes 4k thats just enough for me to buy it( +the part with passive cooling ).