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Posted by Saracen - Thu 27 Jun 2013 10:09
“What would you say if you bought CDs, vinyl or even cassettes from a company 14 years ago, and then 14 years later that company licensed the rights from the record companies to give you the MP3 versions of those albums… and then to top it off, did that for you automatically and for free?” said Jeff Bezos, Amazon.com Founder and CEO.
Well, to be honest, I'd say if I bought an album 14 years ago and wanted an MP3, I'd have had one for about 13 years, 11 months, 364 days and some hours.

I can do it myself perfectly well, to a standard I can control producing a quality I want, and I can do it in a few minutes.

So, Mr Bezos, frankly, I'd say “Yawn. Ho-hum.”
Posted by Smudger - Thu 27 Jun 2013 10:11
I've got nothing, but it does say ‘We’re adding songs from your previous Autorip album purchases"…


…and the songs are there now.

I've just noticed a HUGE flaw. The Michael Bublé album I bought my wife is now in MY collection. Ugh, get it out.

Oh FFS. Olly Murs now as well.
Posted by crossy - Thu 27 Jun 2013 10:30
Smudger
I've just noticed a HUGE flaw. The Michael Bublé album I bought my wife is now in MY collection. Ugh, get it out.Oh FFS. Olly Murs now as well.
You think YOU'VE got problems? I'm dreading my kid's copy of One Direction album popping up between Paulo Nutini and Ozzy Osbourne in my music library. :puke:

Maybe we need to log a feature request with Amazon so you can either mark purchases as gifts or mark them as to be excluded from your AR library.
The music files can be downloaded as “high-quality 256 Kbps MP3s” for offline playing. As well as being a kind of “back up” for your CDs it also lets you purchase your physical media and while you wait for it to be delivered in the post you have full access to the AutoRip files immediately.
If those are 256Kps VBR's then this is a great idea. Sure it won't appeal to the folks that want something higher quality (like FLAC) or different (OGG's). The “instant fulfillment” aspect for purchasers of CD's is also a big draw - although if you've also got Amazon Prime then that'd be less important.

Might dive in and buy those Chickenfoot albums now that I was planning to get a copy of “sometime” just to see how well it works. I only buy MP3 albums for those collections that I'm just trying, and I never buy single tracks.
Posted by Jonj1611 - Thu 27 Jun 2013 10:32
Surely there has to be some type of licensing issue here, I wonder how many people from up to 14 years ago still actually have those CD's they bought and haven't sold them on or whatever.
Posted by jimbouk - Thu 27 Jun 2013 10:42
Another issue, they want your credit card details before you can use the cloud player…
Posted by Smudger - Thu 27 Jun 2013 10:47
jimbouk
Another issue, they want your credit card details before you can use the cloud player…

Really? I just got straight in on my Amazon account…
Posted by cjs150 - Thu 27 Jun 2013 11:17
I buy an album I rip it to disk straight away. Takes 5 mins and that is on a computer that is so old it is steam powered
Posted by Phage - Thu 27 Jun 2013 12:03
Smudger
I've got nothing, but it does say ‘We’re adding songs from your previous Autorip album purchases"…


…and the songs are there now.

I've just noticed a HUGE flaw. The Michael Bublé album I bought my wife is now in MY collection. Ugh, get it out.

Oh FFS. Olly Murs now as well.

Think yourself lucky - I now have the complete High School Musical collection…
Posted by jimbouk - Thu 27 Jun 2013 12:03
Smudger
Really? I just got straight in on my Amazon account…
I guess that means you have a current payment method linked with your Amazon account. I remove mine after every payment (because they don't give me the option not to save it).

So for music I've already bought, should I really need a current payment method registered? It's not like it's going to match the details used 14 years ago when I bought the CD so there justification on rights management is well off. Just another method to get you to one-click buy, accidentally or otherwise.
Posted by Saracen - Thu 27 Jun 2013 12:29
jimbouk
I guess that means you have a current payment method linked with your Amazon account. I remove mine after every payment (because they don't give me the option not to save it).

….
As do I, or at least, I did before I instructed Amazon to close my account. And I still do so with others, like Paypal. I last used Paypal about 2 years ago, and usage is sporadic at best. I can't think of a single good reason for leaving credit card details on there, and several good reasons for not doing so.

Personally, I'm not interested in cloud services or storage anyway. I'm not interested in “free” services, and no way, no how, am I leaving credit card details to allow access to one. If I want to authorise credit card payment to any company, even one I use regularly, I will give them card details at the time, and they do NOT have my agreement to store it, and “saving” card details with AMazon et. al.? Hell will freeze over first.
Posted by circuitmonkey - Thu 27 Jun 2013 13:41
Well that's the last time that I buy CD's for the Mrs on my Amazon account!
Posted by Smudger - Thu 27 Jun 2013 14:24
circuitmonkey
Well that's the last time that I buy CD's for the Mrs on my Amazon account!

Exactly!

I got this back from Amazon when I enquired about gifting the MP3…

I understand that you want to gift the mp3 versions.

Usually CD purchases in orders including one or more items marked as gifts at checkout are not eligible for AutoRip.

As you have not marked them as gifts at check out our system failed to recognise that the Cd's are gifts.

As a result you have received them on to your cloud player. I am sorry for the inconvenience caused.

Currently we don't have this option to gift these mp3 versions directly to their gift recipients cloud player.

However, there aren't any file restrictions on our MP3 files.

The MP3 files you purchase from Amazon.co.uk contain no digital rights management (DRM) restrictions, are provided in an industry standard MP3 format, and should be compatible with most systems capable of reading MP3 audio files.

So if you want you can gift these mp3 versions to them.

I think they're missing the point, that I don't want them showing on my cloud account! She's already ripped the CDs to the PC…
Posted by donkiddik - Thu 27 Jun 2013 20:19
Phage
Smudger
I've got nothing, but it does say ‘We’re adding songs from your previous Autorip album purchases"…


…and the songs are there now.

I've just noticed a HUGE flaw. The Michael Bublé album I bought my wife is now in MY collection. Ugh, get it out.

Oh FFS. Olly Murs now as well.

Think yourself lucky - I now have the complete High School Musical collection…

You think that's bad, its just downloaded The music of James Last : 100 Classic Favourites I bought for a family member !!!!!
Posted by circuitmonkey - Fri 28 Jun 2013 08:31
Saracen
As do I, or at least, I did before I instructed Amazon to close my account. And I still do so with others, like Paypal. I last used Paypal about 2 years ago, and usage is sporadic at best. I can't think of a single good reason for leaving credit card details on there, and several good reasons for not doing so.

Personally, I'm not interested in cloud services or storage anyway. I'm not interested in “free” services, and no way, no how, am I leaving credit card details to allow access to one. If I want to authorise credit card payment to any company, even one I use regularly, I will give them card details at the time, and they do NOT have my agreement to store it, and “saving” card details with AMazon et. al.? Hell will freeze over first.

Thought I'd share my technology fail last night;

I have Amazon MP3 on my phone set to auto-download music from my cloud account… well I think you can see where this is going, it downloaded all the Tracy Chapman albums that I bought for my Mrs to my phone, which is annoying.
The utter fail came from the fact that I had my phone playing music on shuffle on the gyms Hi-Fi last night and got some very strange looks when ‘Fast Car’ came on!
Posted by crossy - Fri 28 Jun 2013 08:51
donkiddik
You think that's bad, its just downloaded The music of James Last : 100 Classic Favourites I bought for a family member !!!!!
Hmm, maybe this'd be a suitable subject for a Hexus QOTW …

What is the most embarrassing/awful album music that might appear on your Amazon Player because of AutoRip?

Apart from the One Direction/JLS stuff I bought for the kids I'm actually pretty well off - checked last night and the most “out there” one I'd got was The Collected Works of Flanders And Swann (or I think that's what it was called) and that's one I bought for myself, (The Hippopotamus Song and The Gasman Cometh being quite amusing).
Posted by Smudger - Fri 28 Jun 2013 09:25
I've already mentioned my shameful ones. Alright, there were 2 Bublé albums…:surprised:

All the rest are way cool, ‘cos I’m hip with the kids.
Posted by krazy_olie - Fri 28 Jun 2013 14:30
Nothing shameful,

The licensing is definitely weird here. Have you retrospectively bought the mp3s separate from the cds?
You could buy a cd, get the cloud ripped thing then sell you cd as new, and there'd be absolutely nothing wrong with it… Most people would say it is wrong to rip a cd and sell it whilst keeping the rips.


It's not added anything from the marketplace (which is most of my purchases), which is to be expected. Some purchases aren't autoripped enabled too.

Personally won't find it useful, maybe some people will.
Posted by Saracen - Fri 28 Jun 2013 15:48
There is a potential gotcha for auto-rip.

If you buy an album (one eligible for auto-rip because not all are, due to licencing), it then auto-rips to your cloud.

If you then decide to return an album AND if you have downloaded ANY tracks from that album, you WILL be charged the price for the MP3 version of the album, which MIGHT be higher than the price of the CD you sent back.

This applies if you have any device set to auto-download and any track from the album has been auto-downloaded.

So just be aware, if you use auto-rip at all, and send albums back, you could end up getting a bill, not a refund, for having done so.

Also, by using cloud player, you do give Amazon permission to search your devices for music, and “related content. That alone makes it a non-starter for me, ‘cos it’s none of their damn business what else is on my ”devices“ and I'm certainly not giving them permission to go searching and indexing them.

If I want an MP3 of my CDs, I'll do it myself, licencing or not, and Amazon can keep their prying snoots out of my ”devices". They're getting to be as bad as Google.
Posted by crossy - Mon 01 Jul 2013 10:00
Saracen
There is a potential gotcha for auto-rip. If you buy an album (one eligible for auto-rip because not all are, due to licencing), it then auto-rips to your cloud. If you then decide to return an album AND if you have downloaded ANY tracks from that album, you WILL be charged the price for the MP3 version of the album, which MIGHT be higher than the price of the CD you sent back.
:o Ouch - that's pretty sharp practice - you'd think that at least Amazon would remind you and give you the option to purge those “unlicensed” tracks.
Saracen
Also, by using cloud player, you do give Amazon permission to search your devices for music, and “related content. That alone makes it a non-starter for me, ‘cos it’s none of their damn business what else is on my ”devices" and I'm certainly not giving them permission to go searching and indexing them.
The cloud player I last used was a web-browser based thing, which I'm assuming (naive mode on) would be blocked from a fishing expedition on your machine by the browser sandbox - or does that sandbox allow free read access, but blocks (fingers devoutly crossed) from write access?

I used the AutoRip service three times on Friday - although I don't see an opt-out so I got to use the service by accident. “13” (Black Sabbath) and “Bula Quo” (Status Quo) were fine - and it was great to be able to listen to the albums without having to wait for the postman - but “Black Dog Barking” (Airbourne) the first disk was AutoRip'd but the second (bonus) disk was missing.

So my evaluation of AR was 10/10 to start with, but I'll knock off a point for the Airbourne issue above, another one off for the opt out, and another four for the issue that Saracen raises above. So overall 4/10 - bad show Amazon, good idea in theory, but implementation needs some work.
Posted by Saracen - Mon 01 Jul 2013 12:21
crossy
:o Ouch - that's pretty sharp practice - you'd think that at least Amazon would remind you and give you the option to purge those “unlicensed” tracks.

The cloud player I last used was a web-browser based thing, which I'm assuming (naive mode on) would be blocked from a fishing expedition on your machine by the browser sandbox - or does that sandbox allow free read access, but blocks (fingers devoutly crossed) from write access?

I used the AutoRip service three times on Friday - although I don't see an opt-out so I got to use the service by accident. “13” (Black Sabbath) and “Bula Quo” (Status Quo) were fine - and it was great to be able to listen to the albums without having to wait for the postman - but “Black Dog Barking” (Airbourne) the first disk was AutoRip'd but the second (bonus) disk was missing.

So my evaluation of AR was 10/10 to start with, but I'll knock off a point for the Airbourne issue above, another one off for the opt out, and another four for the issue that Saracen raises above. So overall 4/10 - bad show Amazon, good idea in theory, but implementation needs some work.

Well, I can see where Amazon are coming from with that ‘gotcha’. It's apparently aimed at the auto-rip equivalent of the long-standibg practice of buying an album, copying it and taking it back, and that is a practise going back to the days of LP's and the initial release of the audio cassette.

So I kinda sympathise with them on that. It's also quite possible it's required by their licencing deal.

What I don't much like is, basically, two things. First, it's buried in the T&C's, and I'd bet a very small proportion of users ever bother to read them. So I expect howls of anger if/when they start applying that. Second, that youcan end up paying more for the “free” MP3 version that the CD version. Why in hell would the MP3 version cost more than the physical version in the first place? That strikes me as an outright con, right there.

Personally, I don't really give a damn. I've never bought an album from Amazon, and don't have any particular plans to start. My first choice is to buy locally, be that supermarket, or small owner-managed places, though the latter are getting harder to find.

Also, I'm an an age where an increasingly small proportion of “new” music appeals, and I really know where my old man was coming from with “turn that cacophony down, will you” when I was young. Sorry Dad, I should have been more considerate.

So, mainly I buy either classical stuff I haven't got, or to fill gaps in my personal back-catalogue of the “cacophony”.

And third, I increasingly find second-hand sources, including market stalks, rich veins to mine, as others seem to increasingly go digital only.

And fourth and finally, I'm not interested in Amazon's cloud services (or anyone elses), so will never sign up for cloud player. If I want to sync my music across various devices, I'm quite capable of doing it myself without letting nosy US corporates do it for me.


But I hope anyone that does use this service, and though it holds no appeal for me I can see why others might like it, does so eyes-open, and is aware of the issues.
Posted by crossy - Tue 02 Jul 2013 09:41
Saracen
Personally, I don't really give a damn. I've never bought an album from Amazon, and don't have any particular plans to start. My first choice is to buy locally, be that supermarket, or small owner-managed places, though the latter are getting harder to find.

And third, I increasingly find second-hand sources, including market stalks, rich veins to mine, as others seem to increasingly go digital only.
Problem I've got is that (locally at least) the supermarkets (and whatever WH Smith stock) are the only game in town. We used to have a couple of good indy stores but the rising rates and competition from the likes of HMV killed them. Now our HMV got killed also - reputedly by rising rates on it's sq.ft and the “pile ‘em high and sell ’em cheap deals” from folks like Asda.

So I've got a choice - either “commute” to the nearest city in the hope of finding a decent store or hold my nose and use Amazon.

Although one area where we probably are in agreement (other than in the poor choice of “mainstream” music) is that digital only isn't attractive for me. I must have that shiny disk to feel that I “own” that music. As has been demonstrated with the Kindle on previous occasions - Amazon can withdraw titles when they see fit.

Apart from anything else, my car's old enough that it has no line-in or USB capability, so shiny disks are still the preferred way to get something decent to listen to. Although given the examples of my music taste I've given above, you may want to argue the term “decent” wrt my musical taste. ;)
Posted by MrJim - Tue 02 Jul 2013 09:50
crossy
Hmm, maybe this'd be a suitable subject for a Hexus QOTW …

What is the most embarrassing/awful album music that might appear on your Amazon Player because of AutoRip?

Apart from the One Direction/JLS stuff I bought for the kids I'm actually pretty well off - checked last night and the most “out there” one I'd got was The Collected Works of Flanders And Swann (or I think that's what it was called) and that's one I bought for myself, (The Hippopotamus Song and The Gasman Cometh being quite amusing).

I see your JLS, and raise you…two hours worth of Gregorian chant :puke: