Nope. Doesn't do a thing for me.
No No No and No
Apple FTL
Android FTW :)
NO!!!!!!!
Apple products are not allowed in my house its all Blackberry an Android for mobile devices
Tablets should only be prescribed by doctors. I think that sums it up quite well. I have never seen a use for a tablet for what I do. Smartphones seem to do everything I need atm :D.
Screen size aside, the iPad, and every tablet available at the moment, has feature parity with a smartphone. There's nothing that I do that would work better on a tablet than on the laptop and my smartphone I already own. Unless the university I attend & work for goes all digital next semester and insists everyone needs a tablet for textbooks, I really have no reason to consider an iPad.
Also, anyone who thinks an Android or BlackBerry tablet is so much better, it's worth mentioning that neither mobile OS on a tablet (and, in the case of Android, on a smartphone either) is supported by my university because of their lack of consistent security implementation in regards to data or network connectivity. I'm not an Apple fanboy saying, “Suck it!”; rather I'm a well-versed IT guy saying, “Calm down there, fanboy - the grown ups among you make decisions based off of reason, not our irrational feelings.”
I donated my iPad 2 to my brother, barely used the thing, mostly use my Android tablet for reading Manga as it's the correct screen ratio. More pixels isn't the solution to the problem that e-ink has already solved.
ghostdogma
Also, anyone who thinks an Android or BlackBerry tablet is so much better, it's worth mentioning that neither mobile OS on a tablet (and, in the case of Android, on a smartphone either) is supported by my university because of their lack of consistent security implementation in regards to data or network connectivity. I'm not an Apple fanboy saying, “Suck it!”; rather I'm a well-versed IT guy saying, “Calm down there, fanboy - the grown ups among you make decisions based off of reason, not our irrational feelings.”
Have experienced this too in the past, though it has mostly come down to a lack of proxy support because they use over-the-top firewalls. Otherwise can't poke fault at the android implementation.
Nope, my Xoom already does everything I need a tablet to do at a fraction of the purchase price :)
No I won't! My Archos 80 G9 got the ICS upgrade today and is running nice for train entertainment.
The Mrs was totally uninterested in upgrading her iPad2 when I said the software was the same… she said “screen looks nice enough already, why do I want something thicker and heavier and who uses a camera on a tablet”…
No it does nothing I can't do on my £100 second hand laptop.
Nope, not good enough and too much. Retina display is wasted on a tablet and who wants something thicker. Short memories Apple, you were touting how thin the last iPad was….so how can you justify a new thicker model?
Sorry I have much better things to do with my money than buy Apple products.
No, I will be building a new desktop for the same price.
Yes, ive pre-ordered one.
Im quite happy with how iOS works in terms of being intuitive, as the tablet is mainly for my son (initially to help toilet train :) )
Nope. Not enough of a shift for me to want to shift my hard earned ££££
Will look again at this space year.
As for ghostdogmas comment…. Yup, agree. All the financial instituitions i work with use Apple devices as test beds for staff work devices as android isnt finalised enough and blackberrys tablet is crap.
Im loving my Galaxy Note though albeit supplemented with an ipad2 and a work laptop.
No chance Just got a 7 inch with GPS fits in pocket does all I need as I don't do Games. Do maps offline pictures card games books odd bit of video and web browsing as required.
Nope, love my iPad 2. Nothing it doesn't do that the new one will.
No need to upgrade at all in my eyes.
Love my Ipad2 and can't see a reason to upgrade atm, might change when I actually see one
Depends; I'll do it if I can get a decent price for my first-generation model.
3dcandy
Nope, not good enough and too much. Retina display is wasted on a tablet and who wants something thicker. Short memories Apple, you were touting how thin the last iPad was….so how can you justify a new thicker model?
Oh yeah I would much rather have a lower resolution, than have it 0.8mm thicker. 0.8mm is nothing, sometimes things can't be kept the same.
As for what I think. The ipad 3 looks good but chances are that I won't justify the cost to actually get one.
0.8mm is 0.8mm, so why did they make such a fuss over the previous models thinness then?
Perhaps you don't mind but it's things like this that annoy the hell out of others…and the resolution is wasted imho.
It's not a ‘retina’ display, 267dpi on the ipad 3 versus 330dpi on the iphone 4 and they really shouldn't be advertising it as such. Still no, I buy my devices because they're special like my Thinkpad T60 for being able to have the highest resolution panel ever produced for a laptop, or my Nokia N900 for being able to run a full desktop OS and have a keyboard. The ipad 3 is not special in any way and would just perform the job of my laptop but worse obviously as I wouldn't have a keyboard which I use heavily.
T60 is a very rubbish laptop. Utterly slow….
Regarding the question asked, NO, dont have any use for an iPad
Simple answer… no.
Apple are way to expensive for what you get, and I'm not shallow enough to buy one just for the name!
I'm not an Apple hater, in so far as I think they make some nice looking and working stuff, but they are far to overpriced.
If and when I get a Tablet it will be a cheap Android version (Windows 7/8)…
3dcandy
0.8mm is 0.8mm, so why did they make such a fuss over the previous models thinness then?
The more pertinent question is why
you are making such a fuss out of an inconsequential change.
it's things like this that annoy the hell out of others
It's called ‘splitting hairs’ or ‘making a mountain out of a molehill’.
It's 0.8mm, for goodness' sake! It's less than a tenth of a centimetre! I'd be surprised if you could even notice the difference without some pretty close examination.
None of the poll answers completely apply to me really, and I see three questions there:
1) Will I buy a tablet?
Probably not; I'd rather buy a small laptop for any scenario I can think of, I'm not keen on touchscreens and I'd much prefer the tactile feel of a keyboard/mouse any day of the week. I like tech but I'm not one to waste money on something just because it's the latest thing and I'm told I need one. On the few occasions I could substitute a computer for a tablet, I'd probably still pick up a laptop instead, and they're not cheap enough to have lying around for the few times you force yourself to use it so you don't feel guilty about buying it.
2) If I decided I wanted a tablet, would I buy an iPad?
In short, no. There are plenty of other options on the market I'd take over an iPad any day of the week and for considerably better value for money, but it's not just about the price - even if they were on offer for £50 I wouldn't bother, unless I thought I could sell it on for a profit. I'd probably go for something like a transformer for reasons I've mentioned above, but even within the basic tablet range, iPad would still be near the bottom.
3) Would I buy anything with an Apple badge on it?
If you've followed my posts for any length of time you already know the answer to that. ;)
All the usual reasons for disliking the monstrosity of a company really…
CampGareth
It's not a ‘retina’ display, 267dpi on the ipad 3 versus 330dpi on the iphone 4 and they really shouldn't be advertising it as such. Still no, I buy my devices because they're special like my Thinkpad T60 for being able to have the highest resolution panel ever produced for a laptop, or my Nokia N900 for being able to run a full desktop OS and have a keyboard. The ipad 3 is not special in any way and would just perform the job of my laptop but worse obviously as I wouldn't have a keyboard which I use heavily.
Tablets are probably held further away from your eyes than phones. So, retina display is probably still about as accurate as it ever was.
No, but none of the “no” options really fit for me.
Mainly, it's “no” because for what use I'd get, it's way over-priced and I'm not interested in paying through the nose for either a name or a fashion fad.
At the right price, and for the right product, I'd buy a tablet, and if that tablet had “Apple” on it, so be it. But I haven't yet seen the right product at the right price. And I'm not holding my breath.
No, I'm a PC, and I'm NOT holding out for Windows 8. Windows 8 can kiss my lilly white Irish arse. I've no interest in the mindless consumption-fest OSes at all.
Possibly, there's two apps that could help both mine and my wife's businesses that fully exploit the convenience of a tablet and only run on iPad so the ROI is simple just need to earn the cash to pay for it :)
I won't be buying an iPad3 because there's nothing it can do that my current Asus Transformer can't - and conversely there's quite a few things that the Transformer can do that the iPad3 can't without extra outlay, (e.g. allow me to view/edit my digicam's pictures on a larger screen, do word processing*, etc).
(* yes, I know that the iPads can do some word processing, but I still think that on-screen keyboards are not suitable for anything other than a quick hunt n' peck session).
With that proviso, I'd say that the iPad3 was definitely worth a look if you were in the market for your first tablet, assuming you weren't already committed to Android.
Yes, well “probably” after a while.
Reason ? I have an iPad1 and to me the ipad2 was more of the same so no reason to upgrade,
in fact I prefer the ipad1 square sides, as the buttons are easier to access in a case than the curved ipad2
One if its uses for me is for pressreader (newspapers) and zinio (magazines) - both those are bit hampered by the 1024x768 screen. You can nearly read a full page without zooming in, but not quite. ipad3's screen should make that much better.
Why only “probably” ? because the price point at £399 is too high for an instant purchase
especially as we now have many decent android tablets at < £200
While I can easily afford it, its not a buy now bargain.
miniyazz
Tablets are probably held further away from your eyes than phones. So, retina display is probably still about as accurate as it ever was.
^This, also retina display is their own marketing so they get to define what is and what isn't classed as such.
mikerr
decent android tablets at < £200
Which decent Android tablets are <£200? I've seen a lot of Android tablets <£200, but none which I'd brand remotely decent.
Mattus
Which decent Android tablets are <£200? I've seen a lot of Android tablets <£200, but none which I'd brand remotely decent.
Ainol NOVO Elf:
Android v4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich
7" 1024×600 resolution
ARM A8 based 1.2GHz processor
Mali 400 GPU
1GB DDR3 RAM
8GB internal flash / microSD slot
Front facing camera
Amazing bit of kit (regardless of price - but more so for £120), which I often use in preference to my ipad1.
Well I've just had my shipping notice for my new iPad. I wonder if I will get it on monday/tuesday instead of the 16th?
Gordy
Well I've just had my shipping notice for my new iPad. I wonder if I will get it on monday/tuesday instead of the 16th?
My pre order gave me a date of 30th march :(
Anyone seen a more cost effective method than paying RRP for it? :)
Nope even if you (BBS) Beg, Borrow or steal, you will still have to pay the RRP for it:)
Yes, definitely. Time to sell the cr*p Android Advent Vega tablet I bough few months back (big mistake) and get a decent (that's actually going to work) tablet…
Can't wait for the 16th!
DR
Anyone seen a more cost effective method than paying RRP for it? :)
Not buying it??
:p
mikerr
Ainol NOVO Elf:
I just watched an unboxing video of that. Firstly, it's 7-inch, and the utility of 7-inch tablets is arguably limited.
Secondly, it doesn't exactly ooze quality. It's from a no-name manufacturer which doesn't even appear to have a user-facing website, and comes in a box with lots of Engrish and Japanese writing on it. The build quality looks poor and thoroughly unexciting - it's must be about three times as thick as an iPad - and the UI looks pretty laggy.
What is the range of apps like? Don't you find it rather ugly next to an iPad? Who are you going to go to if it breaks? Wouldn't you rather have something from a well-known manufacturer? Is it
ever going to get an OS update? Where is the infrastructure in terms of cloud services, etc.?
It's cheaper than an iPad because it's nowhere near as good as an iPad. The tech specs might be favourable, but as a complete solution it's absolutely nowhere. The chance of a product like that gaining any kind of mainstream popularity is absolutely nil.
Mattus
I just watched an unboxing video of that. Firstly, it's 7-inch, and the utility of 7-inch tablets is arguably limited.
Secondly, it doesn't exactly ooze quality. It's from a no-name manufacturer which doesn't even appear to have a user-facing website, and comes in a box with lots of Engrish and Japanese writing on it. The build quality looks poor and thoroughly unexciting - it's must be about three times as thick as an iPad - and the UI looks pretty laggy.
What is the range of apps like? Don't you find it rather ugly next to an iPad? Who are you going to go to if it breaks? Wouldn't you rather have something from a well-known manufacturer? Is it ever going to get an OS update? Where is the infrastructure in terms of cloud services, etc.?
It's cheaper than an iPad because it's nowhere near as good as an iPad. The tech specs might be favourable, but as a complete solution it's absolutely nowhere. The chance of a product like that gaining any kind of mainstream popularity is absolutely nil.
Fanboy-much? :)
Although this new iPAD is currently the best tablet, I'm sticking with Android!
It doesn't offer enough over the ipad1 for me to offer to upgrade Mrs H's. Nor does it offer anything over my netbook, so I won't be buying one. I am quite tempted by the samsung thing with a stylus, that is also a phone. If they offer a dual-sim thing I would be sold.
No way ! Die Apple…
May look in to a Android Tab one day but my smartphone does a great job on the sofa !
Mattus
Wouldn't you rather have something from a well-known manufacturer?
I was going to respond to your points, but you really can't see past the apple badge :rolleyes:
watercooled
Well known != good…
True, but with technology unheard of brands do often = rubbish, the post talking about the quality of that other product could equally have been comparing it to motorola or other mainstream brand device. I don't think i'd want to buy a device like a tablet if it was made by a company that didn't even have a public website :)
The way I see it with tablets is it would be convenient to have one for the lounge for web browsing, but i'd choose an Android one over an iPad for that as it's cheaper and does the job. But if my mum wanted one i'd tell her to get an iPad as I know she'd be able to use it, just like she can use her iPhone (she'd find Android on either too faffy - but to be fair to her she is an OAP). Where the iPad would win for me is in more specialised applications like i've mentioned before where it has the upper hand over Android.
Can't see anything great or even good, or ok about it. So no.
Mattus
I just watched an unboxing video of that. Firstly, it's 7-inch, and the utility of 7-inch tablets is arguably limited.
Secondly, it doesn't exactly ooze quality. It's from a no-name manufacturer which doesn't even appear to have a user-facing website, and comes in a box with lots of Engrish and Japanese writing on it. The build quality looks poor and thoroughly unexciting - it's must be about three times as thick as an iPad - and the UI looks pretty laggy.
What is the range of apps like? Don't you find it rather ugly next to an iPad? Who are you going to go to if it breaks? Wouldn't you rather have something from a well-known manufacturer? Is it ever going to get an OS update? Where is the infrastructure in terms of cloud services, etc.?
It's cheaper than an iPad because it's nowhere near as good as an iPad. The tech specs might be favourable, but as a complete solution it's absolutely nowhere. The chance of a product like that gaining any kind of mainstream popularity is absolutely nil.
prefer 7" myself, but each to their own I guess
MSIC
My pre order gave me a date of 30th march :(
When did you order it? My order was at 9am the day after launch. They must have been making loads as normally they are out of stock in hours. I suspect the uk store being down for hours helped me.
spoon_
Yes, definitely. Time to sell the cr*p Android Advent Vega tablet I bough few months back (big mistake) and get a decent (that's actually going to work) tablet…
Common criticism of the Vega's - that said I've seen a lot of comments (on XDA and elsewhere) that the software Advent ship is totally c**p and reflashing with a custom ROM gives a much, much better experience.
saltyzip
Although this new iPAD is currently the best tablet, I'm sticking with Android!
Two questions, first off how d'ya figure that the “iPad3” is “the best tablet” - I'm not disagreeing necessarily, merely interested in your reasoning.
Secondly,
if the iPad3 is “the best tablet” (and personally I'm not so sure) then why shackle yourself with something “inferior”? ;)
I do laugh at Apple with their post PC world comments, yet you can't even start up a new iPhone or iPad without having it connected to a PC (includes Mac) with iTunes installed on it, how archaic, big brother and backwards is that.
Yes. This will be my first.
I'm getting it to entertain my child on holiday and have high hopes. He already enjoys apps I have for him on the iPhone. The iPad should be a nice step up and the decent sized screen will be ideal for letting him watch films on there.
I guess I could have bought an Android tablet but none of them seem as polished and I'm not entirely confortable with the security of Android apps. Perhaps I'm being paranoid but I prefer the idea of Apple-vetted apps on iTunes.
saltyzip
I do laugh at Apple with their post PC world comments, yet you can't even start up a new iPhone or iPad without having it connected to a PC (includes Mac) with iTunes installed on it, how archaic, big brother and backwards is that.
This is no longer true. With iOS 5, iPhone and iPads can be setup and maintained using iCloud. There's no need to use a PC/MAC.
No, tablets right now don't seem to do anything better than a decent smartphone. I may consider a tablet purchase when Windows8 arrives. However this will be dictated by the Windows8 ARM software support, if most of the major applications I use don't show interest in supporting it then I will see no point in that either.
saltyzip
I do laugh at Apple with their post PC world comments, yet you can't even start up a new iPhone or iPad without having it connected to a PC (includes Mac) with iTunes installed on it, how archaic, big brother and backwards is that.
This is no longer the case….
crossy
Two questions, first off how d'ya figure that the “iPad3” is “the best tablet” - I'm not disagreeing necessarily, merely interested in your reasoning.
Secondly, if the iPad3 is “the best tablet” (and personally I'm not so sure) then why shackle yourself with something “inferior”? ;)
I have an Asus Transformer TF101 which I love, and the family loves it, especially my two little ones aged 6 and 2. Come Christmas in the fire sales I am hoping to get what was called the Asus Transformer Prime for under £300 that's my limit, no tablet is really worth more than that in my books for the functionality they currently offer over netbooks etc.
1. More Tablet specific Apps, think the figures are 200,000 versus 1000 on Android.
2. Honeycomb OS was good, apart from the non accelerated UI which no doubt would have put a lot of people off purchasing the tablet if they had compared it side by side with an iPad device in a store. I installed a different launcher to get around the UI lag, but shouldn't have needed too.
3. ICS OS yet to gain universal acceptance and default OS on all new tablets. On my current transformer ICS is currently buggy (random reboots) waiting for Asus to release an emergency patch within a week or so. Other than that is is extremely fast/smooth and sexy although improvements to browsing are always welcome.
4. My biggest issue with Google Play/Android Market is the lack of cloud support. I want to store my music in the cloud. In the US they have support, in the UK I haven't even read a confirmation statement from Google it is coming. Perhaps there are alternatives which won't put me out of pocket?
5. Upgrade cycle to get all tablets onto ICS seems slow, lack of manufacturer support, they aren't exactly helping themselves. Asus seem the most enthusiastic, and I've always loved their kit, since I made my first Custom PC many moons ago.
1. Apple are too big and too powerful already and openly admit in their attempts to exterminate the competition e.g. Android via whatever means at their disposal. They even try and kick Kodak when they are on their last legs, Apple are such a horrible horrible company.
2. Apple are currently being sued for eBook price fixing, they are so up themselves because of their dominance they dictate the rules, leaving the poor individuals at the end of the food chain suffering.
3. Apple products are often described as “Glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults”, I like living on the edge.
4. I believe Android(Linux) will become the dominant platform, opensource architecture/OS is the way to go, the PC is the perfect example of why it trumped Apple and continues to do so. So Android is the horse I am betting on long term.
5. Steve Jobs couldn't get a job under George Bush Sr's administration because he had too many references referring to him as a “a deceptive individual” and couldn't be trusted.
6. Apple has a one size fits all philosophy, they know what is best irrespective if the consumer disagrees, choice and fair play rather than dictatorship is my view.
7. Alternative manufacturer products are in many cases better than Apple, you pay for the name/design.
8. Apple seems to be one of the most hated company's on the planet at the moment.
9. More likely to get mugged if I have an Apple product on me, I have a family and I don't want to draw any unwanted attention because of my gadgets.
Saltyzip - Your my hero! Fantastic explanation.
Boris
This is no longer true. With iOS 5, iPhone and iPads can be setup and maintained using iCloud. There's no need to use a PC/MAC.
My wife won an IPad 2 in a competition at her local salon last year and she sold it to one of her brothers in January this year.
I don't know what OS was on it but when he switched it on at my house to set it up, it stated it needed to be connected via USB to a PC, couldn't get past that opening screen.
The same situation occurred on her brothers iPhone 4 (not S) bought around the same time.
It was interesting comparing the iPad 2 to my Asus Transformer (honeycomb at the time), the higher resolution and larger screen on my Asus trumped the iPad 2, especially when playing games. Angry Birds was so much better on widescreen. Also avoids the black border syndrome when watching movies.
I never got time to compare the internet browser side of things, wished I had.
Boris
This is no longer true. With iOS 5, iPhone and iPads can be setup and maintained using iCloud. There's no need to use a PC/MAC.
Didn't know that - thanks for sharing. :D
saltyzip
(here be heavy snippage…)
3. ICS OS yet to gain universal acceptance and default OS on all new tablets. On my current transformer ICS is currently buggy (random reboots) waiting for Asus to release an emergency patch within a week or so. Other than that is is extremely fast/smooth and sexy although improvements to browsing are always welcome.
Thanks for the lengthy - and pretty well thought-out - explanation. :thumbsup:
Sorry to hear that your TF101 is playing up - mine works fine with ICS, smooth as silk. In fact the only thing I complain about is it's tendency to try and lock onto a weaker WiFi signal when a stronger one is available, i.e. I have a router and a WiFi repeater and sometimes it'd try and go for the router when the repeater is in the same room.
PS If you can get a Transformer/Infinity Prime for £300 then I'd buy one too. :)
I refused to buy the first two, but decided to take the plunge on this one. The screen is gonna be jaw dropping! Will be a kick up the backside for all the tv manufactures out there. Time to catch up. Super HD is on its way!!!
crossy
….
Secondly, if the iPad3 is “the best tablet” (and personally I'm not so sure) then why shackle yourself with something “inferior”? ;)
Maybe the same reason people buy a BMW or Mercedes (or Jaguar, or whatever your preferred flavour is) rather than a Bentley or a Ferrari …. they either can't afford the Bentley/Ferrari option, or even if they can, don't consider it good value for money.
Saracen
(why shackle yourself with something “inferior”) Maybe the same reason people buy a BMW or Mercedes (or Jaguar, or whatever your preferred flavour is) rather than a Bentley or a Ferrari …. they either can't afford the Bentley/Ferrari option, or even if they can, don't consider it good value for money.
Granted - but in this case the BMW v's Bentley argument doesn't really apply because the iPad3 is about the same price as Galaxy Tab's, Transformer Prime's. Although to continue the motoring analogy I guess this is like buying an Audi S6 rather than a BMW M5 - despite the M5 being “better”*.
(*please don't flame me Audi owners, I'm just going based on what Top Gear says).
darrensen
I refused to buy the first two, but decided to take the plunge on this one. The screen is gonna be jaw dropping! Will be a kick up the backside for all the tv manufactures out there. Time to catch up. Super HD is on its way!!!
But most people tend not to sit 5 inches from their TV screen…
crossy
Granted - but in this case the BMW v's Bentley argument doesn't really apply because the iPad3 is about the same price as Galaxy Tab's, Transformer Prime's. Although to continue the motoring analogy I guess this is like buying an Audi S6 rather than a BMW M5 - despite the M5 being “better”*.
(*please don't flame me Audi owners, I'm just going based on what Top Gear says).
True, but the iPad is also seen as the ‘must-have", the status symbol. And we could make similar analogies with watches, designer clothes, hell, we could use premium washing powder brands. ;)
Take clothes. You will find me in George jeans, but you will not find me in Levi’s, let alone silly-prices designer brands. Why? I don't regard the more expensive items as value for money, and at least for my purposes, they are both equally functional. With shoes, on the other hand, quality often is worth paying for because (in my experience) they last longer, and are often FAR more comfortable, especially if you spend extended periods of time on your feet.
Saracen
True, but the iPad is also seen as the 'must-have", the status symbol. And we could make similar analogies with watches, designer clothes, hell, we could use premium washing powder brands. ;)
IMO it can work the opposite way too; people who do research into the subject might see the iPad as the default/benchmark product, and while others may be less publicised they offer better features/value for money.
It's analogous to many market segments, a brand which is heavily publicised and accepted by many but if you put some time into research, you'll probably find many better options.
cheesemp
Saltyzip - Your my hero! Fantastic explanation.
Fantastic explanation? It is 90% an ideological argument, rather than one related to the merits and demerits of the actual
product.
It might convince the open-source ideologues who are happy to tolerate palpably inferior products in order to avoid having to fill the coffers of the evil Apple, but 99% of the population just doesn't
care.
watercooled
IMO it can work the opposite way too; people who do research into the subject might see the iPad as the default/benchmark product, and while others may be less publicised they offer better features/value for money.
It's analogous to many market segments, a brand which is heavily publicised and accepted by many but if you put some time into research, you'll probably find many better options.
Agreed. It can work that way. With those more money-savvy than brand-conscious, it may well do.
Mattus
Fantastic explanation? It is 90% an ideological argument, rather than one related to the merits and demerits of the actual product. It might convince the open-source ideologues, but 99% of the population just doesn't care.
Nail head…
I think what most people in the techie field are struggling to grasp about the ipad and apple in general is that this no longer about them. This is getting computing devices into the hands of people who couldn't care less what it is or who makes it, but what it brings in terms of ease of use and the lack of computer fear.
I see it a lot with clients who are terrified of using computers in case of well it all goes wrong. They make things seem scary in their heads. The ipad for a lot of them makes total sense. It's easy to use and friendly.
And they are buying them in their millions.
I shake my head when I see people refusing to buy Apple products, because very few have a good reason. If you think google or motorola or samsung or htc are angels compared to Apple, well you are living on cloud cuckoo. Don't buy a product that is first/second best for stupid reasons. (Please note I know for some people android tablets are a better choice, I've got no problem with that.) It's the I will never buy an apple product, even if google takes my first born child from me nonsense that seems to be so pervasive these days.
Fair enough there are lot of people that a tablet is not for them, it's just most of them see to spend a lot of time arguing on forums why tablets and the iPad specifically are diabolical products.
I would bet my life on the fact the night of the latest iPad announcement there were some terrified excutives at Dell/HP/Intel etc who didn't get a drop of sleep. If the iPad follows the iPod path in terms of adoption as opposed to the iPhone one there are going to be some massive changes in the landscape of computing for the masses. And in their bottom lines as a result. At present there is no one outside Amazon and Barnes and Noble who is doing anything of note in the tablet market. I cannot see how anyone else with their present methods can change that.
saltyzip
My wife won an IPad 2 in a competition at her local salon last year and she sold it to one of her brothers in January this year.
I don't know what OS was on it but when he switched it on at my house to set it up, it stated it needed to be connected via USB to a PC, couldn't get past that opening screen.
The same situation occurred on her brothers iPhone 4 (not S) bought around the same time.
Anything on iOS 5 or higher no longer needs the link to the computer. In fact you didn't need it before if you took it into an apple store they would have done that stage for you and you'd be off and running.
Up until iOS 5 I never recommended an iPad to anyone thinking it's something they can have as their only computer. Now I still think they are second machine, but for some people an iPad does everything they need and much more. The removing of the tethered chain was a big step forward.
Gordy
Nail head…
I think what most people in the techie field are struggling to grasp about the ipad and apple in general is that this no longer about them. This is getting computing devices into the hands of people who couldn't care less what it is or who makes it, but what it brings in terms of ease of use and the lack of computer fear.
I see it a lot with clients who are terrified of using computers in case of well it all goes wrong. They make things seem scary in their heads. The ipad for a lot of them makes total sense. It's easy to use and friendly.
And they are buying them in their millions.
I shake my head when I see people refusing to buy Apple products, because very few have a good reason. If you think google or motorola or samsung or htc are angels compared to Apple, well you are living on cloud cuckoo. Don't buy a product that is first/second best for stupid reasons. (Please note I know for some people android tablets are a better choice, I've got no problem with that.) It's the I will never buy an apple product, even if google takes my first born child from me nonsense that seems to be so pervasive these days.
Fair enough there are lot of people that a tablet is not for them, it's just most of them see to spend a lot of time arguing on forums why tablets and the iPad specifically are diabolical products.
I would bet my life on the fact the night of the latest iPad announcement there were some terrified excutives at Dell/HP/Intel etc who didn't get a drop of sleep. If the iPad follows the iPod path in terms of adoption as opposed to the iPhone one there are going to be some massive changes in the landscape of computing for the masses. And in their bottom lines as a result. At present there is no one outside Amazon and Barnes and Noble who is doing anything of note in the tablet market. I cannot see how anyone else with their present methods can change that.
This
Apple have been shown to be an arrogant company a few times the whole iphone 4 signal issue springs to mind. That being said none of the android competitors are saints either. I refer you to the link of Samsung galaxy tab newton rings problem which I saw in local currys on a display model.
http://www.thegalaxytabforum.com/index.php?/topic/6141-update-from-samsung-re-oil-slick-newton-rings-issue/I am not an apple fan boy I have sony erricson phone & desktop pc with windows 7. I advise my family members to buy an ipad as they are intuitive my sister for example she has 3 kids on her lap top all the time so I told her to get an ipad for casual browsing on the sofa and she loves it.
My mum uses her ipad again as its easy no faffing around so its good because she cant operate the tv remote but loves the ipad.
As for apple pricing well the transformer prime was £500 on release the galaxy matched the ipad for price but I think out of all the apple products the ipad is the most competitively priced. As for whether people think it worth it thats a different matter, personally I don’t need an ipad but I haven’t seen any offerings from android so make me want one advise people to get one
Mattus
Fantastic explanation? It is 90% an ideological argument, rather than one related to the merits and demerits of the actual product.
It might convince the open-source ideologues who are happy to tolerate palpably inferior products in order to avoid having to fill the coffers of the evil Apple, but 99% of the population just doesn't care.
Yeah, 99% of the population just want working apps which don't keep crashing all the time. Wait, that's Android. So much for ‘open-source ideologues being happy to tolerate palpably inferior products’.
aidanjt
Yeah, 99% of the population just want working apps which don't keep crashing all the time. Wait, that's Android.
I invite you to consider the relative popularity of the iPad and the various Android tablets before making pronouncements on what 99% of the population wants. Android tablets have various plus points, but mass appeal is an argument you're just not going to win.
Mattus
I invite you to consider the relative popularity of the iPad and the various Android tablets before making pronouncements on what 99% of the population wants. Android tablets have various plus points, but mass appeal is an argument you're just not going to win.
Popularity is no more an indicator of suitability than it is an indicator of scientific accuracy.
I'm sure I read that Apple products crash a lot more often than Android, but because of the silent crashing in iOS compared to Androids very noticeable warning people don't realise….shall try and dig it out, I thinkl you'll be surprised!
3dcandy
I'm sure I read that Apple products crash a lot more often than Android, but because of the silent crashing in iOS compared to Androids very noticeable warning people don't realise….shall try and dig it out, I thinkl you'll be surprised!
Intriguing. I wonder if that is caused by there being more apps and and apps being used more frequently?
aidanjt
Yeah, 99% of the population just want working apps which don't keep crashing all the time. Wait, that's Android. So much for ‘open-source ideologues being happy to tolerate palpably inferior products’.
The iPad is not just apps, as HP, Samsung etc have found to their cost. It's about a whole ecosystem, built around a great product. Amazon are the first to realise this and do something about it. You have to believe that they had the fire in mind when they started their app store for android. They have by far and wide the best ebook store and more than good enough music store. The fact they are using a different model to apple helps too with the cost price of the fire.
Copying apple's products has been attempted by many companies in the past few years and that has failed totally. They need to try to do something unique. A me too product is doomed to fail.
You could argue for all android's success it has been a failure. It's cost Google far more than they've generated in advertising income. I suspect they did it so that they wouldn't beholden to apple or blackberry or microsoft in the mobile sphere. I that way it has definitely been a success. How much longer the board can justify investing billions into it without seeing decent revenue in return is going to be interesting.
Mattus
Fantastic explanation? It is 90% an ideological argument, rather than one related to the merits and demerits of the actual product. It might convince the open-source ideologues who are happy to tolerate palpably inferior products in order to avoid having to fill the coffers of the evil Apple, but 99% of the population just doesn't care.
Erm, I think you're doing “saltyzip” a disservice there - I count 15 bullet points he's listed, of which 9 are “opinion”, so in actuality 66% idealogical argument. But that being the case, is it any different to that trotted out by Gordy - I'd say not. (but then again, I'm biased) :D
Gordy
I shake my head when I see people refusing to buy Apple products, because very few have a good reason. If you think google or motorola or samsung or htc are angels compared to Apple, well you are living on cloud cuckoo.
Here's one person who won't buy an Apple product - but that's because either they're too inflexible/expensive (Mac), flawed - either in design or function (iPhone4/4S), a poor fit for needs (iPad), or poor value for money for
me (iPods - apart from the Classic). Do I think other companies are angels? No, certainly not. But I will argue to my last breath that - at the moment at least - Apple are a heck of a lot more “evil” than all others (except Oracle).
Gordy
Fair enough there are lot of people that a tablet is not for them, it's just most of them see to spend a lot of time arguing on forums why tablets and the iPad specifically are diabolical products.
True - to an extent - there's a lot of folks, heck even on this thread, arguing that tablets are a dead end. Maybe they're right, maybe not - I'm not a “futurologist” so I'm not going to say one way or t'other. iPad is singled out purely because of Apple's PR that it's a “magical device” (barf) that'll change the way you live your life … no it won't it's just a gadget, (like any other tablet).
Gordy
I would bet my life on the fact the night of the latest iPad announcement there were some terrified excutives at Dell/HP/Intel etc who didn't get a drop of sleep.
I'll take that bet … because you're so out of touch that it's funny. Intel, for one, are getting into the tablet market, so a “mis-step” like iPad3 gets great PR for tablets, without actually generating a lot of defections to Apple. The “mis-step” monica comes from others - like I've said before - although it's a boring rehash of the iPad2, it's actually seems to be an okay device afaik.
Gordy
If the iPad follows the iPod path in terms of adoption as opposed to the iPhone one there are going to be some massive changes in the landscape of computing for the masses. And in their bottom lines as a result. At present there is no one outside Amazon and Barnes and Noble who is doing anything of note in the tablet market. I cannot see how anyone else with their present methods can change that.
Again, not convinced, look at the responses here and you'll see some folks saying that they'd prefer the smaller form factors (i.e. the ones that Apple don't do at the moment), others are saying that they can't see the point of a tablet when a normal large screen smartphone (e.g. HTC One X is 4.7“!) will do all they want.
As to the ”no-one else doing anything of note in the tablet market" comment - you must be speaking only of sales, in which case perhaps Samsung are a distant fourth. However, on a different view - namely from the technical point of view - others are doing a
lot more than Apple, B&N or Amazon - all three guilty of turning out “just good enough” devices rather than something special. Look at what Samsung (Galaxy Note), Asus (Transformer and padFone) or Sony (P series) are doing from the technical aspect.
iPod was special because it allowed easy,
pocketable access to entire music libraries. iPod Touch was special because it allowed smartphone-like app delivery while still being a music and video consumption device. (Personally though I would have preferred a little less focus on the apps side of the Touch and more on the music playing - I still maintain that the sound quality on a 1st or 2nd Gen iPod Touch is noticeably worse than an old 5th Gen iPod. Tablets are different to iPods - solely because they're just as difficult to carry as an ultrabook or similar ultra-light netbook/laptop - although I'll grant they have the “instant on” appeal of iPods too if you insist. ;)
crossy
Here's one person who won't buy an Apple product - but that's because either they're too inflexible/expensive (Mac), flawed - either in design or function (iPhone4/4S), a poor fit for needs (iPad), or poor value for money for me (iPods - apart from the Classic). Do I think other companies are angels? No, certainly not. But I will argue to my last breath that - at the moment at least - Apple are a heck of a lot more “evil” than all others (except Oracle).
Very much my opinion.
crossy
Again, not convinced, look at the responses here and you'll see some folks saying that they'd prefer the smaller form factors (i.e. the ones that Apple don't do at the moment), others are saying that they can't see the point of a tablet when a normal large screen smartphone (e.g. HTC One X is 4.7“!) will do all they want.
As to the ”no-one else doing anything of note in the tablet market" comment - you must be speaking only of sales, in which case perhaps Samsung are a distant fourth. However, on a different view - namely from the technical point of view - others are doing a lot more than Apple, B&N or Amazon - all three guilty of turning out “just good enough” devices rather than something special. Look at what Samsung (Galaxy Note), Asus (Transformer and padFone) or Sony (P series) are doing from the technical aspect.
iPod was special because it allowed easy, pocketable access to entire music libraries. iPod Touch was special because it allowed smartphone-like app delivery while still being a music and video consumption device. (Personally though I would have preferred a little less focus on the apps side of the Touch and more on the music playing - I still maintain that the sound quality on a 1st or 2nd Gen iPod Touch is noticeably worse than an old 5th Gen iPod. Tablets are different to iPods - solely because they're just as difficult to carry as an ultrabook or similar ultra-light netbook/laptop - although I'll grant they have the “instant on” appeal of iPods too if you insist. ;)
As I was saying earlier, something like the Transformer is what I'd buy over the plain tablets, touch keyboards are and always will be crap until someone comes up with a way of making the screen turn into a normal keyboard or something. And just the form factor in general of tablets is very poor IMO, you're either hunching over a table its sitting on or holding the equivalent of a heavy book in your hands for some time, neither of which is comfortable beyond checking your emails. And the portability is just a pile of … they're no easier to carry than a laptop but you have the added concern of a fragile, exposed glass screen. So the iPad as a product is near the bottom of my tablet list, regardless of the Apple badge, which just nails the coffin shut. And TBH it's the same for all Apple products, I'm yet to see one I consider being anywhere near worth the money, and I've unfortunately used many over the years, before anyone gives the default ‘try one’ line.
About ~90% of people not caring about Apple being an awful example of a company, I'd say that 90% just don't
know. There's a difference…
crossy
I'll take that bet … because you're so out of touch that it's funny. Intel, for one, are getting into the tablet market, so a “mis-step” like iPad3 gets great PR for tablets, without actually generating a lot of defections to Apple. The “mis-step” monica comes from others - like I've said before - although it's a boring rehash of the iPad2, it's actually seems to be an okay device afaik.
Out of touch? Apple selling my iPads than anyone else sold computers? How many intel chips are in those iPads? or any tablet? It's all ARM chips. Even Microsoft are now supporting ARM. Getting into tablets doesn't equal sales or traction. You only have to look at microsofts attempts at tablets for evidence of that.
Here's an interesting read on the same kind of point
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/03/new_ipad_how_apple_s_tablet_strategy_parallels_its_unbeatable_ipod_success_.htmlAs for the new iPad being a boring rehash of the iPad 2… Seriously, what does it need to have to not be a boring rehash? A nuclear power pack attached?
How did discounting the iPhone as a fad go for RIM and Microsoft?
crossy
Do I think other companies are angels? No, certainly not. But I will argue to my last breath that - at the moment at least - Apple are a heck of a lot more “evil” than all others (except Oracle).
At the moment, in technology, yes, but Apple are just using whatever means they have at their disposal to try and dominate the market by eliminating competition, it's what they all did, and what they'll all continue to do, at the moment it patents.
In the early 90's there was a running joke in IT that all you needed to do to earn your 1st million in IT was start a company and announce that you were developing a product to compete with MS Office and you would get bought out by MS within a few weeks and shut down a week later. MS were ruthless in gaining domination of the Office PC environment, destroying companies left right and centre, forcing their own products onto PCs and then using lawyers so expensive that any attempt to stop them through legal channels would literally take years, even if the opposition was a continent. Intel spent the 90's and early 00's
actually bribing the global distributors to delay the launch of AMD products on a global scale to allow Intel to get the upper hand, and only stocking products with Intel chips. The 70's/80's were a nightmare for Reverse Engineering to just copy products like engines before it was made illegal. A classic was the one about a company in the 70's that developed a rubber compound that could be used to make tyres that would last 10 years, apparently Firestone bought the company out and physically destroyed all the research, everything. Supermarkets have used underhand “loss-leading” strategies to destroy UK high street shopping and forced masses of UK farmers out of business due to their market domination.
Apple are no worse than anyone who's gone before them, it's just most of them did it at a time when the internet was the University network I used to access by dialing into JANET on my 14.4k modem.
crossy
Again, not convinced, look at the responses here and you'll see some folks saying that they'd prefer the smaller form factors (i.e. the ones that Apple don't do at the moment), others are saying that they can't see the point of a tablet when a normal large screen smartphone (e.g. HTC One X is 4.7“!) will do all they want.
As to the ”no-one else doing anything of note in the tablet market" comment - you must be speaking only of sales, in which case perhaps Samsung are a distant fourth. However, on a different view - namely from the technical point of view - others are doing a lot more than Apple, B&N or Amazon - all three guilty of turning out “just good enough” devices rather than something special. Look at what Samsung (Galaxy Note), Asus (Transformer and padFone) or Sony (P series) are doing from the technical aspect.
The only measure of success of a product is sales or profitability. What is the point of a great product that is sold to two people and is cancelled shortly after?
I agree that there is a nice hole in the market that others should be exploiting. That of the 7in tablet. Personally I don't have a need for something between the 10in and 4in side of the phone/ipad, but I know others do want something in that area.
I think the ASUS transformer is a great little product too, again they aren't just copying the iPad, but trying to improve on the idea. It's not for me, but I respect what they are doing with it. Looking at their financials I'm not sure how they can do the other things that are required to take on the iPad fully.
Amazon have really got the idea and realised to compete and not create another Dell Streak they have to lower the price to a lot lower than apple's and bring in the ecosystem around the product. They are a brand that people trust and are aware of. Having your customers already have an account to use to buy items on your device is very important. Amazon have that, Apple have that, most others like Microsoft/Dell/Samsung don't. That all said, Amazon are competing with Apple and the iPad, by not competing directly. I don't see them trying to take Apple on at their own game anytime soon. They would have to make huge investments in R&D etc. By outsourcing most of the hardware design/build they avoid that issue.
Barakka
Intel spent the 90's and early 00's actually bribing the global distributors to delay the launch of AMD products on a global scale to allow Intel to get the upper hand, and only stocking products with Intel chips.
I remember, and was disgusted with them at the time, the same as many companies. But ATM it seems Apple unapologetically does stuff of a similar scale on an almost daily basis. Intel also (rightly) lost a lot of money over that, albeit probably nowhere near the amount they cost AMD, but Apple are just juggernauting through smaller/independent companies with judges pathetically favouring them most of the time.
Gordy
The only measure of success of a product is sales or profitability. What is the point of a great product that is sold to two people and is cancelled shortly after?
Marketing plays a massive part and Apple could rebadge an almost identical product and sell it to their fanboys for a higher price (oh what's that? they already do?), Apple ruthlessly market their products, handing them out to TV stations etc.
There are too many things I'd “like” (as opposed to “need”) to have to consider buying a tablet at the moment (DSLR camera is at the top of the list, and I have even held back on that).
If I was in the market for a tablet, I wouldn't rule out a iPad. For me, most devices come down to the applications. I am sticking to a PC, in part because of better gaming support (and other applications aren't lacking). I am pretty sure that I will swap my 2G iPhone with a second hand 3GS the 3GS will run the applications that I need. And at least one of the application I use routinely hasn't, the last time I checked, an equivalent (complete feature set) on the Android platform. I also note that the applications I use on the iPhone haven't crashed on me, so I must be exceptionally lucky with my selections if they are meant to crash “all the time”).
Well, I hope that people making their purchasing decisions on ethical reasons aren't buying any Creative stuff. They pulled on Aureal what Apple just tried to do on Kodak, and got away with it.
watercooled
Marketing plays a massive part and Apple could rebadge an almost identical product and sell it to their fanboys for a higher price (oh what's that? they already do?), Apple ruthlessly market their products, handing them out to TV stations etc.
I'm sorry do you live on an alternate planet were Samsung et al don't do marketing and promotion on tv? The difference between them and apple is that quite often apple don't even have to pay or supply the goods.
As for price, that is no longer the case. See Ultrabooks/Tablets or High end smart phones for a ton of evidence…
Definitely no. I was too late to cast a vote, it seems, though.
Today I have wasted a significant portion of time coming to the conclusion that there's no cheap and easy way to use an existing VGA/USB KVM switch we have in the office for my work Mac Pro and Macbook pro. This is because the apple monitor has a mini displayport connector only (why not more connectors, Apple? My Samsung monitor at home is far superior at a fraction of the cost, and also has vertical adjustment without me having to put textbooks under my monitor!!!!), and there appear to be no simple mini displayport/DVI(or VGA) adapters on the market (again, apple's fault…). So, I would have to buy a mini displayport KVM. Both machines (and the other mac pro I have at the other office) are slow, unstable and intensely irritating to use: for example, I cannot simply get rid of this GODAWFUL mouse acceleration, as I do not have admin rights on the mac pros. At least I can get rid of it on the laptop and will have to wait for the kindly IT support staff to let me sort it out on the big machines.
Added to that, the diabolical airport wifi card in the macbook seems to have a built-in piece of code along the lines of ‘if router != apple then (fail at random intervals).’
The mac pros at work (I have 2 offices at different sites) and the macbook pro I have are all quite unstable, I get quite a lot of crashes. They are also very slow in comparison with my similarly-specced machine at home (and the graphics at home are considerably better…), while being approximately 4x the price.
My boss's Mac pro died a horrible death the other week, the graphics card got frazzled somehow. Despite it being all on intel architecture, it appears that apple won't supply graphics cards for macs of this era (only 3 years old…). WTF? It's a PCIE slot! Apparently just plonking in any old PCIE graphics card (which are of course available nice and cheap if you only need 2D and light 3D use as we do) isn't a go-er. How a company can get away with locking down the hardware they support just to make money like that, I do not know. I would probably be looking on ebay to source a suitable graphics card, but it's nothing to do with me.
There is only one thing about any apple hardware/software that I've used which I can say anything positive about: the magsafe power connector is quite nice.
So to me, in the last 4 years I've had using macs at work (and work mac laptop at home occasionally if not using my home-built PC), apple products are poorly designed, overly limiting, unstable, expensive and under-performing.
So no, I won't ever be buying an ipod, an ipad or an iphone. I strongly resent the use of charity and government money having been spent on apple hardware at work (I work in cancer research for a publicly and charity-funded organisation).
Like all consumers, I want a system that works well, is easy to use (but controllable when needed), and is completely fit for purpose. That's why I never, ever, ever recommend Apple to my friends and colleagues.
As for software, I'm not an Android or Microsoft fanboy, but, for me, they have produced systems that work more consistently, faster (and cheaper) than anything from the apple labs. Tied in with the nasty litigation from apple, their poor consumer care (in my personal experience), their pricing, and their unutterably disgusting advertising campaigns, I'm more than a little inclined against them as a company.
It's been said above that 99% of people just don't care. That's a real shame, because if people actually realised that if they shop elsewhere, they can get what they want cheaper, faster, more compatible and cheaper-to-fix (hell, even possible to fix in the case of a £2500 machine where the graphics card dies in 3 years), maybe apple wouldn't be this awful corporate monster they are.
As much as I dislike Microsoft (it might not seem like it, but I do), at least Bill Gates puts a LOT of cash into medical research via the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. The only thing I see apple doing is breeding a generation of smug sheeple with more money than sense (by a very large margin).
aidanjt
Popularity is no more an indicator of suitability than it is an indicator of scientific accuracy.
What exactly are you saying? Are you saying that all these people who buy iPads would actually be better-suited to an Android tablet of some description, but they're somehow bamboozled into buying the iPad instead?
This is by far the most annoying argument used against Apple because it implies that Apple users are too stupid to know which products are actually best for them. For those of us who actually buy Apple products on their merits after having considered their suitability, to be frank, it's pretty insulting. Why can't you accept that Android tablets may be right for you, but the Android tablet manufacturers have singularly failed to make products which appeal to the majority?
And if all these iPad users are using a product which actually isn't very suitable for them, how can you explain the fact that Apple has the highest satisfaction figures in the industry? Or is that down to the stupid unthinking Apple sheep as well?
Again, marketing and the label, if Android marketed a tablet to the same extent as Apple the figures would certainly be quite different.
And the ‘stupid Apple sheep’ remark is just an over-sensitive interpretation by many users IMO. Ignorance != stupid, and many people will have only used an iPad/pod/phone, because it's the well-known/safe option but won't have bothered to research anywhere near as much as us enthusiasts would, nor will they have tried others, so they can't possibly know another brand isn't much better suited to their needs.
In my experience, people owning non-Apple products in parts of the market where they do well, tend to be the type to put more research into the purchase while, as I said, the Apple choice is the default to play it safe.
watercooled
Again, marketing and the label, if Android marketed a tablet to the same extent as Apple the figures would certainly be quite different.
I disagree. The iPad UI is easier to use for the uninitiated, the product is more aesthetically appealing, and it's supported by better infrastructure (i.e. the App Store, iCloud, software updates, etc.) Those factors are at least as important as marketing.
Mattus
I disagree. The iPad UI is easier to use for the uninitiated,
Opinion, subjective
Mattus
the product is more aesthetically appealing,
Again, subjective and TBH there's not a great deal of difference between quite a few of the vanilla tablets.
Mattus
and it's supported by better infrastructure (i.e. the App Store, iCloud, software updates, etc.) Those factors are at least as important as marketing.
Not necessarily, and you lose some of that if you jailbreak to run anything besides what Apple decides you can.
If you want to start nitpicking, I'm sure i could come up with a substantial list of problems with Apple choices. For example, fragility, most people I know who own an iPhone have broken the screen at some point, we even made a joke about it when a friend dropped his Blackberry from a 3rd floor walkway and it survived completely intact.
watercooled
Opinion, subjective
Of course it's an opinion. This is a forum - it's full of opinions. But you can't just dismiss all opinions this way because some opinions are supported by a lot more empirical evidence than others. It is mentioned
again and
again and
again that the iPad's ease of use is a major factor in its appeal to a diverse range of users.
Which evidence do you have that Android tablets offer a high level of ease of use for users
outside of the technology enthusiast community?As for what Apple ‘allows you to run’ on an iPad.. the ‘walled garden’ is another argument that gets a lot of technology enthusiasts on forums in a rage, but for the majority of users just isn't an important issue. What does the average user want to do on an iPad which he can't do without jailbreaking (with the possible exception of Flash)?
Mattus
It is mentioned again and again and again that the iPad's ease of use is a major factor in its appeal to a diverse range of users.
Everything written there ‘extolling the virtues of the iPad, period’ is really just extolling the virtues of the tablet form factor compared to one of the traditional PC form factors. If you're going to be asserting that the iPad is teh bestest eva, and nothing else in the universe can beat it, then you really need to be backing that up with an impartial comparative study of all valid contenders.
aidanjt
If you're going to be asserting that the iPad is teh bestest eva, and nothing else in the universe can beat it, then you really need to be backing that up with an impartial comparative study of all valid contenders.
I happen to think Mattus is right, and when he is trying to calmly put across an opinion its not very mature to degenerate in to the above sort of writing (and i know you're normally better than that).
For me personally, i think that iOS is a much more intuitive interface - it's more internally consistent than Android (at least 2.3, which i'm familiar with on my SGS2 plus 2.3 on a previous tablet) - a common example being my ‘back’ button which sometimes exits from an app, and other times come up one level, and not always predictably either. If i go in to my text app in 2.3 it typically takes me to my last sent text. If i want to create a new text, i press the back button, and sometimes get dumped back to my iOS.
I also think that iOS is a prettier interface - again, at least compared to iOS 2.3 (youtube videos of 3.0 do appear to go in a better direction, and i cant wait to upgrade to 4.0).
For me, and i think this is a critical point - many tech literate people (i.e. us here) dont care too much about the beauty of how something is presented and far prefer to have features and functionality; we are too quick to dismiss this attitute in others as trivial or ‘dumbing down’ in some way - i would 100% disagree with this perspective, and would confidently argue that it is these sorts of attention-to-detail points that have results in Apple's rapid expansion in to the mindset of the general public (and concurrent profitability).
Android
is a more flexible, capable and seemingly powerful system than iOS is, but if you look only at the things that iOS does offer, then it offers then in a better way than Android does.
I dont believe that the general public want choice and ‘real’ functionality - they want a straightforward, beautiful and high quality interface that does the things that have been prepared / indoctrinated (take your pick) to think about.
MSIC
I happen to think Mattus is right, and when he is trying to calmly put across an opinion its not very mature to degenerate in to the above sort of writing (and i know you're normally better than that).
He was making bare assertions, not opinions. And he was far from being calm about it. In fact he became quite hysterical when I simply stated that popularity isn't a measure of suitability.
MSIC
For me personally, i think that iOS is a much more intuitive interface - it's more internally consistent than Android (at least 2.3, which i'm familiar with on my SGS2 plus 2.3 on a previous tablet) - a common example being my ‘back’ button which sometimes exits from an app, and other times come up one level, and not always predictably either. If i go in to my text app in 2.3 it typically takes me to my last sent text. If i want to create a new text, i press the back button, and sometimes get dumped back to my iOS.
I also think that iOS is a prettier interface - again, at least compared to iOS 2.3 (youtube videos of 3.0 do appear to go in a better direction, and i cant wait to upgrade to 4.0).
For me, and i think this is a critical point - many tech literate people (i.e. us here) dont care too much about the beauty of how something is presented and far prefer to have features and functionality; we are too quick to dismiss this attitute in others as trivial or ‘dumbing down’ in some way - i would 100% disagree with this perspective, and would confidently argue that it is these sorts of attention-to-detail points that have results in Apple's rapid expansion in to the mindset of the general public (and concurrent profitability).
Android is a more flexible, capable and seemingly powerful system than iOS is, but if you look only at the things that iOS does offer, then it offers then in a better way than Android does.
I dont believe that the general public want choice and ‘real’ functionality - they want a straightforward, beautiful and high quality interface that does the things that have been prepared / indoctrinated (take your pick) to think about.
See, that's an opinion. You're not using assertive language. I don't agree with it, because I find ICS more atheistically pleasing than iOS, and I don't prescribe to the idea that technology needs to be condescending or dictatorial for most people to get to grips with it. And that's not to say there isn't room for improvement in Android, obviously there is for both, otherwise new products would be pointless. But it's a well expressed opinion.
watercooled
Again, marketing and the label, if Android marketed a tablet to the same extent as Apple the figures would certainly be quite different.
And the ‘stupid Apple sheep’ remark is just an over-sensitive interpretation by many users IMO. Ignorance != stupid, and many people will have only used an iPad/pod/phone, because it's the well-known/safe option
First part - very true. The influence of Apple's marketing machine (kudos to them for being so good at it is everywhere). E.g. go into a big electronic store and look at the large displays for iPhone and iPad, as opposed to the stuck-in-the-corner one for ‘droid devices (and Playbooks). I asked a PC World guy about this one day, and was quite candidly told that it was in their interests to sell iPads etc because the margins were better. Not saying that this is necessarily true or not personally, merely repeating what I was told.
Look on films and tv - what you’ll see invariably are iPhones and iPads (although the new Hawaii Five-O seems to be going through a spell of Android and WinP7 phones). E.g. “Alexander Armstrong's The Big Ask” on Dave, the guests use iPads to draw on - no reason that something else couldn't have been chosen. Look also at online sites - Comets, Currys, etc - the categorisation is “iPad” and then “Tablet” (for Galaxy Tab's etc), almost if the iPad isn't really a tablet, or there's iPads and then there's other things too - but the iPad is first in the list.
I really hate the “Apple Sheeple” monika - as the only ones it really applies to are the evangelical types. That said I've equal opprobrium for the “if you use Apple then you're a sellout” crowd. Said it before, while I have little respect for Apple the company, they do turn out some darned good products (although perhaps not to my taste at the moment).
Mattus
the iPad's ease of use is a major factor in its appeal to a diverse range of users. Which evidence do you have that Android tablets offer a high level of ease of use for users outside of the technology enthusiast community?
Hmm, but that's where we diverge, I'm not convinced that iPads
are necessarily easier to use than the Android equivalents, especially if you disregard the stuff running Android 2.3 and instead pick proper ICS gear. And unless you've got access to some learned university study, I suspect any “evidence” on ease of use will difficult to find.
MSIC
For me personally, i think that iOS is a much more intuitive interface - it's more internally consistent than Android (at least 2.3, which i'm familiar with on my SGS2 plus 2.3 on a previous tablet) - a common example being my ‘back’ button which sometimes exits from an app, and other times come up one level, and not always predictably either. If i go in to my text app in 2.3 it typically takes me to my last sent text. If i want to create a new text, i press the back button, and sometimes get dumped back to my iOS.
Funnily enough I had exactly the same complaints about my iPod Touch - that being one of the reasons I got rid of it.
MSIC
I also think that iOS is a prettier interface - again, at least compared to iOS 2.3 (youtube videos of 3.0 do appear to go in a better direction, and i cant wait to upgrade to 4.0).
For me, and i think this is a critical point - many tech literate people (i.e. us here) dont care too much about the beauty of how something is presented and far prefer to have features and functionality; we are too quick to dismiss this attitute in others as trivial or ‘dumbing down’ in some way - i would 100% disagree with this perspective, and would confidently argue that it is these sorts of attention-to-detail points that have results in Apple's rapid expansion in to the mindset of the general public (and concurrent profitability).
I'm going to disagree with everything that you said here - how many times have folks here complained about a case looking ugly or Win 8 Metro being a mess? As to relative beauty I think that both Android 3.0+ and iOS5 have good points and bad - if I had a level playing field choice of which to choose for a new device I'd have to think very long and hard.
The trivialisation (in some circles) of the “experience” - I think - is down to those folks who've consistently argued that an Apple device is “better” purely on it's looks. When I saw someone describe an iPhone4S as “a device having an almost sensuous beauty” I knew they'd lost the plot - it's a phone, get over it! (PS SE Arc S is still wayyyyy prettier to me anyway - ha-ha).
And here's where I get lynched - there was an article that said, in effect, that
some of Apple's success was due to being identified as a “fashionable” brand and hence people bought solely to feel that they “belonged” to that elite. There's maybe some truth in that - e.g. look at the very large logo's on the backs of iPhone and iPad, placed where others can see them.
MSIC
I dont believe that the general public want choice and ‘real’ functionality - they want a straightforward, beautiful and high quality interface that does the things that have been prepared / indoctrinated (take your pick) to think about.
Hmm, again, not sure I agree. Most folks I know about who've gone for a tablet have wanted it for a specific reason. If the learning curve for an iPad to do what they want is smaller then it's a better device - no argument possible. My point is that, whilst in 2010 this was an easy choice (heck, I probably would have bought an iPad!), in 2011 it's less so, and now this year (with more decent devices from Samsung et al) and (finally!) a decent tablet OS in ICS, it's more of a straight fight.
Personally speaking (and if this get's me accused of being a sell-out then so be it), if I was to buy a tablet for my mother, then it'd probably be an iPad2 - because her needs wouldn't be much and the brand recognition would save on a lot of explanation. On the other hand, for my eldest daughter it'd probably be an Asus Transformer, and her sister would probably prefer a Sony S series. That said, both of them currently have HP TouchPad's and are enjoying them greatly - now there's an interface that deserved more of a shot than it eventually got!
Maybe Hexus should escalate this from QOTW to Question-Of-The-Month?
Android does have a brand/image problem - how does the great unwashed know the difference between a crap £50 android tablet (experience that and you'll move away from android totally) and a decent android tablet.
A decent android talbet is better than an ipad, but not all android tablets are at that level.
Similar situation with phones, the best android phone is probably better than an iphone,
but there's a lot of crap android devices below it…
E.g. I could demo my android NOVO Elf - which is a match/better than my ipad - but then friends have seen that and gone out and bought a poor tablet thinking android tablets are all similar (they aren't).
With there being one ipad, there's no bottom end crap - less choice, but no real chance to choose wrong either.
Very much my point, you can go and buy an iPad knowing what you'll get. Go and pick a random Android tab without research and you could end up with something catastrophically bad if you're unlucky. Unfortunately, as you say, people see ‘Android’ as an equivalent to the iPad, they don't get it's just the OS run by a wide range of tablets/phones.
Simply recommending an Android tablet is like recommending a PC running Windows, assuming they'll all be the same. And that lack of choice really does help Apple's reputation, it makes things simpler.
In terms of beauty of a UI, bash needs some love IMO. :P
watercooled
Very much my point, you can go and buy an iPad knowing what you'll get. Go and pick a random Android tab without research and you could end up with something catastrophically bad if you're unlucky. Unfortunately, as you say, people see ‘Android’ as an equivalent to the iPad, they don't get it's just the OS run by a wide range of tablets/phones.
Oh, so true - I really can't help coming back to the conclusion that what's needed is a
prominent “Google Certified” sticker (although “Google Play Certified” would also do), along with some major PR to get that “brand” out there. To get that branding, your tablet would need to be running Android 3.0/4.0 and have Market/Play on it - and I'd maybe argue that ICS perhaps should be the minimum OS level.
There's also maybe a point of view that Microsoft has learned lessons and been a bit better at keeping the Windows Phone “experience” relatively consistent - so I'd hope that Windows 8 Tablet Edition would be equally good/bad across it's various makes and models.
watercooled
Simply recommending an Android tablet is like recommending a PC running Windows, assuming they'll all be the same. And that lack of choice really does help Apple's reputation, it makes things simpler.
Hadn't thought of that, but again, that's a good summary. Same as buying a Mac - you know exactly what you're going to get.
watercooled
In terms of beauty of a UI, bash needs some love IMO. :P
colour bash is all the ui you need… rofl.
If you read that report on the crash statistics, part of the problem is that the average Apple users does not realise the app has crashed because it is silent under iOS 99% of the time. When you try the app again it reloads/re-starts and you just don't know it has crashed, whilst Android usually makes a big song and dance….
Walled garden is a blessing and a pita for Apple. I don't particularly feel that the ecosystem is that much better, I quite like the Android market and can find stuff and download it just as quick, and usually it's cheaper too. Only problem is that some apps are written with a fixed screen res and don't play so well. This fragmentation of Android is bad as you can buy tosh, both hardware and software wise. Also it's still great to buy one dock/connector and just plonk your iDevice in…
My biggest beef I think is the price issue, I can always get a cheaper option than Apple that will do the job equally as well. These things are all tools basically right?
Also re: Samsung and Tablets, people forget that quite a few components in iPads are made by Samsung, cpu and screens especially, so they must be making a fair bit from Apple already. I'd like to see what happens if Apple pushes too hard and Samsung stops supplying them. Probably won't happen but I would laugh so hard my ass would probably detach from my body if they did…
watercooled
For example, fragility, most people I know who own an iPhone have broken the screen at some point, we even made a joke about it when a friend dropped his Blackberry from a 3rd floor walkway and it survived completely intact.
Really? Can't say that I've ever dropped my phone.. or any electronic device from a 3rd floor walkway and I am not about to try, but after 4 years of use, and having dropped my 2G iPhone from various places, the screen is damage free. I can honestly say that none of the people I know with newer iPhones have complained about broken screens either. It doesn't come across as the most obvious issue to me.
3dcandy
I can always get a cheaper option than Apple that will do the job equally as well. These things are all tools basically right?
As hardware, it might be true. Though I question if it is the case in the MP3 player market - back when I was looking for one in the iPod 5G, Creative Vision:M, iAudio X5 and they all did the job “equally well” on average more or less, but they all had exclusive features or did certain things better than the competition. The pricing difference between each devices wasn't great enough to give up any single device if it had the features that suits your needs/taste more than the others.
But as tools, the applications they run is at least as important as the hardware. My most used application for the past 3 years is this:
http://www.codefromtokyo.comI have periodically scanned discussion threads on learning tools on Japanese learning forums, and while Japanese <-> English dictionaries obviously exist on Android devices, there are useful features in the aforementioned apps not found elsewhere. It's probably too niche of a product for most people to care, but I would and can afford to pay more for a more suitable tool, and suitability in this case is less about the hardware but more about the software.
I'll note is that the IME Pad on Windows is *miles* better than the Kanji drawing pad on the iOS (or at least earlier versions, I am stuck to version 3 on my 2G iPhone). If this remains true on Windows 8 smartphone and someone develop a suitable app, it might be enough for me to jump ship.
In the mean time, I am just going to shop for a cheap second hand 3GS so that I can actually make calls here in Japan and carry on using the same applications. As a tool, the hardware is adequate.
aidanjt
He was making bare assertions, not opinions..
Bare assertions? My assertions were supported by three sources. Which, unless I'm mistaken, is three more than you have provided in support of yours.
TooNice
Really? Can't say that I've ever dropped my phone.. or any electronic device from a 3rd floor walkway and I am not about to try, but after 4 years of use, and having dropped my 2G iPhone from various places, the screen is damage free. I can honestly say that none of the people I know with newer iPhones have complained about broken screens either. It doesn't come across as the most obvious issue to me.
He was leaning over the edge playing a game/texting while waiting for someone, then they walked up behind him, it spooked him and he dropped it. Granted it was onto an indoor floor and not concrete but, besides the back + battery flying off it was fine. Another friend forgot to close the zip on his college bag with his iPhone in, it fell about 3ft onto a similar surface and the screen was history. Yet another friend went for at least a year in college with an iPhone (or possibly an iPod touch, can't remember exactly) with a cracked screen with a few pieces of glass missing, although the remaining bit still worked fine. He said he dropped it but I'm not sure how far or on to what sort of surface. They're just quite expensive to repair apparently.
No, it's not a huge sample size, but I've heard a few people complaining about the screen breaking quite easily for something which is inevitably going to get dropped a few times.
Mattus
Bare assertions? My assertions were supported by three sources. Which, unless I'm mistaken, is three more than you have provided in support of yours.
They're still opinions put across as fact, regardless of who wrote them.
watercooled
They're still opinions put across as fact, regardless of who wrote them.
And not even comparisons to any Android devices, let alone WebOS, or even Windows tablets, just traditional PC form factors like no other tablets exist.
TooNice
Really? Can't say that I've ever dropped my phone.. or any electronic device from a 3rd floor walkway and I am not about to try, but after 4 years of use, and having dropped my 2G iPhone from various places, the screen is damage free.
2G was the most robust of them, but all up to 3GS were on a par with other phones,
I've owned iphones from 2g/3G/3GS to the 4 I now own. None had any problems, but my 4 had its screen smashed within 3 months…
The 4 is fragile though - mine smashed its screen from a < 12 inch drop onto a table - less impact han my 3GS survived over the years. The glass is the first to hit - the other models will impact on plastic edge on, and my older iphones did have numerous small scratches and chips on the plastic back/surrround.
Interesting discussion. Nice for it to not descend into name calling and other nonsense :) Thumbs up :)
watercooled
He was leaning over the edge playing a game/texting while waiting for someone, then they walked up behind him, it spooked him and he dropped it. Granted it was onto an indoor floor and not concrete but, besides the back + battery flying off it was fine. Another friend forgot to close the zip on his college bag with his iPhone in, it fell about 3ft onto a similar surface and the screen was history. Yet another friend went for at least a year in college with an iPhone (or possibly an iPod touch, can't remember exactly) with a cracked screen with a few pieces of glass missing, although the remaining bit still worked fine. He said he dropped it but I'm not sure how far or on to what sort of surface. They're just quite expensive to repair apparently.
No, it's not a huge sample size, but I've heard a few people complaining about the screen breaking quite easily for something which is inevitably going to get dropped a few times.
They're still opinions put across as fact, regardless of who wrote them.
I've seen a report somewhere discussing the shock resistance if an iPhone 4 v Samsung Galaxy S II. Galaxy S passed all the tests (remained working, in fact remained in one complete piece) whilst the iphone 4 only really passed the first test which was a drop from I think 6 inches. After that the iphone screen/back panel broke every time, and after the 5 feet test the iphone failed to work. I think the last test was 30 feet drop, the galaxy s screen was chipped but worked fine. I also know someone who dropped their iphone 4s whilst opening the packaging and it was curtains…
Now, I'm not saying that it's a great scientific test, but some people who feel the iphone is a very well designed and strong phone may reconsider their thoughts if they saw how easily they can be killed
watercooled
They're still opinions put across as fact, regardless of who wrote them.
So when I (or anybody else) write anything which isn't a provable fact, I have to preface it with ‘in my opinion’ or ‘I think’ for the avoidance of all doubt? I'm not sure I see the problem with expressing oneself in ‘assertive language’. I'd like to think that people are intelligent enough to work out that a statement such as ‘the UI is more aesthetically appealing’ is plainly my opinion and cannot possibly be factually ‘correct’ or ‘incorrect’! The same for any other subjective judgments on the usability of a device.
MSIC
For me, and i think this is a critical point - many tech literate people (i.e. us here) dont care too much about the beauty of how something is presented and far prefer to have features and functionality; we are too quick to dismiss this attitute in others as trivial or ‘dumbing down’ in some way - i would 100% disagree with this perspective, and would confidently argue that it is these sorts of attention-to-detail points that have results in Apple's rapid expansion in to the mindset of the general public (and concurrent profitability).
Android is a more flexible, capable and seemingly powerful system than iOS is, but if you look only at the things that iOS does offer, then it offers then in a better way than Android does.
I dont believe that the general public want choice and ‘real’ functionality - they want a straightforward, beautiful and high quality interface that does the things that have been prepared / indoctrinated (take your pick) to think about.
I completely agree with this. Many of the arguments I read in support of Android over iOS trivialise aspects of the iPad like the physical appeal of the device, the user-friendliness of the UI, the way the iPad focuses on doing the simple things right, and the effectiveness of Apple's marketing in creating a particular image.
The reality is that whilst people who post on tech forums might only be concerned with the technical characteristics of the device, ‘soft’ factors like the above are just as much a part of the product as the underlying technology is. What is wrong with something being popular because it looks nice? What is wrong with something being popular because it's very easy to use? Hell, what is wrong with something being popular because it has a fashionable image and people want to be seen with it?
Why are these drivers of popularity somehow inferior to how many pixels a chip can push, or whether a device has a USB port, or whether you can root it and customise the OS? Posting on a tech forum doesn't mean that you have to look at things from a purely tech perspective. It's necessary to appreciate that the factors which motivate you to buy something might not be those which motivate the majority. A device which is better for an enthusiast isn't necessarily better all round.
One of the things I like most about my iPhone and MacBook is that they are exquisitely crafted as objects. I know full well that the MacBook has the same hardware in it as any other laptop, but I appreciate its design, appearance and construction. That is every bit as important to me as what is inside. If I were buying a tablet, those factors would be a big tick in the iPad column.
If all of this sounds like weak guff to you, then fair enough. But people are not machines. They have emotive responses to technology in addition to purely rational ones. Making products which appeal to the former is no less legitimate than making products which appeal to the latter. And - perhaps more to the point - it's certainly no less successful or profitable.
Mattus
The reality is that whilst people who post on tech forums might only be concerned with the technical characteristics of the device, ‘soft’ factors like the above are just as much a part of the product as the underlying technology is. What is wrong with something being popular because it looks nice? What is wrong with something being popular because it's very easy to use? Hell, what is wrong with something being popular because it has a fashionable image and people want to be seen with it?
Why are these drivers of popularity somehow inferior to how many pixels a chip can push, or whether a device has a USB port, or whether you can root it and customise the OS? Posting on a tech forum doesn't mean that you have to look at things from a purely tech perspective. It's necessary to appreciate that the factors which motivate you to buy something might not be those which motivate the majority. A device which is better for an enthusiast isn't necessarily better all round.
One of the things I like most about my iPhone and MacBook is that they are exquisitely crafted as objects. I know full well that the MacBook has the same hardware in it as any other laptop, but I appreciate its design, appearance and construction. That is every bit as important to me as what is inside. If I were buying a tablet, those factors would be a big tick in the iPad column.
If all of this sounds like weak guff to you, then fair enough. But people are not machines. They have emotive responses to technology in addition to purely rational ones. Making products which appeal to the former is no less legitimate than making products which appeal to the latter. And - perhaps more to the point - it's certainly no less successful or profitable.
I would still like to disagree with some of this and offer up my opinion :P. I think that the vast majority of the sales that Apple receive from all their products is from their insane amount of marketing that they have done over the years stating that their technology is incredibly innovative and brand new (everybody wants innovative and new products). Now that they have a large foothold in the market they can just bring out new devices and a large proportion of people buying them won't even consider buying a different product because they haven't been presented with enough marketing. Some people I have met bought the iPad, a month or two before the iPad 2 and then bought that as well, not even considering that there could be another product in the market. I have also seen the same happen with people buying the iPhone 4 then swiftly upgrading to the iPhone 4S purely because it's the newest phone from Apple.
The style of their products isn't too bad in my opinion, they all look good and they all match - therefore people would look more fashionable to have out their iPad, Macbook pro, and iPhone, opposed to a mash up of different coloured and differently styled devices.
However I certainly don't think that they are the
BEST looking and built devices. There are definitely better looking laptops than the Macbook pro, better looking tablets than the iPad and better looking phones than the iPhone. I can only speak for the phones in terms of build quality, but the 3G and the 3GS were definitely not built very well, I don't know anyone who didn't have the back of the phone split on those models. My friend has the whole range of iPhones and iPod touches, every one of them has had a problem with it's build quality, whether it be the split at the back of the phone or the screen being cracked from a small drop. I have old sony ericsson phones that I used for years that have less wear than the iPhone that I had.
I do think that Apple are slowing down though now, since the loss of Steve Jobs and other companies beginning to market their products a lot more. Such as Asus. Anyway that's what I think.
EDIT: Sorry if I any of these points have been made previously.
Mattus
I completely agree with this. Many of the arguments I read in support of Android over iOS trivialise aspects of the iPad like the physical appeal of the device, the user-friendliness of the UI, the way the iPad focuses on doing the simple things right, and the effectiveness of Apple's marketing in creating a particular image.
I'm not being combatative, but I'm going to pick you up on a couple of things about this:
- Is an iPad any more appealing than, say, a Galaxy Tab? Apple's actions would seem to indicate that they're peers - otherwise why try and sue over form factor?
- Again, I'd argue that the ICS UI is just as good as iOS, or just as bad if you'd prefer;
- Ah - my key point - what's to say that the Apple way is “right”? I'd argue that as long as that simple thing is activated in an obvious and common-sense manner then - to quote Perl idiom - there's more than one (right) way to do it. It really sticks in my craw that some Apple-fans insist that their way is the only way - no insult intended to your good self of course.
- Apple marketing - yes, it's very, very good. No argument from me on that, and presumably much jealousy in the offices of Samsung, Asus, RIM, etc. ;)
Mattus
The reality is that whilst people who post on tech forums might only be concerned with the technical characteristics of the device, ‘soft’ factors like the above are just as much a part of the product as the underlying technology is. What is wrong with something being popular because it looks nice? What is wrong with something being popular because it's very easy to use? Hell, what is wrong with something being popular because it has a fashionable image and people want to be seen with it? Why are these drivers of popularity somehow inferior to how many pixels a chip can push, or whether a device has a USB port, or whether you can root it and customise the OS?
Agree 100% with what you're saying. But, in pedant mode, having a USB port isn't necessarily a technical aspect - if you want/need to use an external keyboard/mouse or flash drive then a USB port becomes a usage “must have”. There are probably other examples too.
I remember reading that the back side of the Transformers case has an embossed design not only to make it easier to hold, but also because it was felt that doing so
added to the visual appeal of the product - backing up what you're saying.
Mattus
but I appreciate its design, appearance and construction. That is every bit as important to me as what is inside. If all of this sounds like weak guff to you, then fair enough. But people are not machines. They have emotive responses to technology in addition to purely rational ones. Making products which appeal to the former is no less legitimate than making products which appeal to the latter. And - perhaps more to the point - it's certainly no less successful or profitable.
Doesn't sound like “weak guff” to me - quite the contrary. I'll admit to having an admiration for my wife's TouchPad over my Transformer, despite the latter being unarguably more capable. The TP is heavier, but it also feels more “solid”, the rounded edges and sleek black case also says to me that this is a product that
was designed to “soothe the soul by pleasing the eye”.
Take the current fad for quad-core phones - I think I'd prefer the longer battery life of dual-core devices over the nebulous speed advantages of those two extra cores. As a software geek, I'd say that if the OS and apps are done “properly” then you shouldn't need that extra power - except perhaps for gaming. So it was amusing to me to read a thread on a forum where iPad2 v's Transformer Prime was being discussed - there I found myself siding with the Apple camp because I can't really see the appeal of the extra processing capacity of the Prime (although there's other reasons why I'd buy it rather than iPad2/3). Although if you want to game play or doing image manipulations then I'll concede the extra grunt is useful. So - he says finally getting to the point - there is an example where a technologically “poorer” device is actually a “better” one to use - because the reduced power consumption means longer to use it.
Pete301
I think that the vast majority of the sales that Apple receive from all their products is from their insane amount of marketing that they have done over the years stating that their technology is incredibly innovative and brand new (everybody wants innovative and new products). Now that they have a large foothold in the market they can just bring out new devices and a large proportion of people buying them won't even consider buying a different product because they haven't been presented with enough marketing.
Some people I have met bought the iPad, a month or two before the iPad 2 and then bought that as well, not even considering that there could be another product in the market. I have also seen the same happen with people buying the iPhone 4 then swiftly upgrading to the iPhone 4S purely because it's the newest phone from Apple.
Sounds like Intel then. But I can certainly think of various reasons why people may want to stick with one platform:
1. Compatibility. It's a pain moving to switch platform because you may not be able to automatically transfer all the data, have to look up for alternative apps to the one you are using and essentially “lose” the paid apps you've invested on. That's true for all platforms.
2. Time. Whether it is worth the cost of time involved in switching platform is entirely subjective and for a lot of people, it's not. If you are content with the way the device works, but just want it a bit faster faster or whatnot, you are less likely to feel the need to invest time in looking at every alternative, just so that you have to spend even more time learning how to use it, replace the apps etc. For what it's worth, I sometime think that I spend *too much time* deciding when/what to upgrade, and sometime I should just go ahead with it.
3. Most people I know, especially those on 2 years contracts, skip a phone. But just as there are people willing to upgrade their iPhone rapidly, others are upgrading their Galaxy (etc.) as they are released. The cost involved in the upgrade may not be that bad either, as well kept phones / tablets maintain their value relatively well.
A friend of mine has a Dell tab and I kind of like it, although not enough to go and buy one as i think my current smartphone does about everything I can possibly need and was like 1/3th of an ipad price but hey, I'm just regular folk :)
As of i-stuff, that would be the very last brand of choice for my next gadget…
Pete301
However I certainly don't think that they are the BEST looking and built devices. There are definitely better looking laptops than the Macbook pro, better looking tablets than the iPad and better looking phones than the iPhone.
Out of interest, which alternatives do you think are better-looking than the iPad and MBP?
Yep, day one purchase for sure. Only a few hours to go.
Mattus
Out of interest, which alternatives do you think are better-looking than the iPad and MBP?
I really like the look of the transformer prime by Asus, and if I were interested in tablets then that would probably be what I would get. As for the Macbook Pro, I think I have just got bored of the design because nearly everyone at my uni has one. Sitting in a lecture theatre makes it feel like an Apple convention :S. It does look nice, but again I'd probably go for something by Asus or Acer. But I haven't really had a look into buying laptops/tablets as I don't have a need for either.
Pete301
As for the Macbook Pro, I think I have just got bored of the design because nearly everyone at my uni has one. Sitting in a lecture theatre makes it feel like an Apple convention :S.
Heh, now Macs are more popular with students, “think different” means don't get a Mac ;)
It was presentation day today at the language school I go to, and it was kinda interesting to notice that the five laptops in the room were all of different brand: Apple, Dell, MSI, Samsung and Sony. Lined up alphabetically too.
Well mine has arrived. Just setting it all up now. So far initial impressions are good. Screen looks silky, cannot see any pixels at all! Need to get some apps and photo's on it for better idea of how good it is.
Well, my 10-month old macbook pro has just bricked itself (stutter, stutter, hang… reboot - nothing).
I know I will never spend any of my own money on any Apple product (and I'm glad I haven't to date), I know precisely what I'll get: an overpriced piece of garbage that is slow, doesn't work properly, then dies within a year.
I've used now 4 ‘top end’ macs, 2 macbook pros and 2 mac pros. They are all slow, expensive and unstable, and now the newest of them is also a brick.
It may seem childish and irksome of me, but I resent people buying Apple products after my experience with them. I don't want that company to be getting ANY money - in my view they don't deserve it, and I'd like to see them buck their ideas up about product stability and customer support. Both have been a huge let down from my perspective.
What your post has to do with price of the fish?
Gordy
Well mine has arrived. Just setting it all up now. So far initial impressions are good. Screen looks silky, cannot see any pixels at all! Need to get some apps and photo's on it for better idea of how good it is.
Keep us updated please!
spoon_
What your post has to do with price of the fish?
Keep us updated please!
I wouldn't buy any Apple product as they, in my experience, are unfit for purpose. Kinda relevant to the whole, you know, release of the iPad3…
Got my ipad (new / 3/ HD) this morning.
A bit of an unexpected development to be honest, as i had pre-ordered on the Apple website initially, but was disappointed to be told about a 2 week wait.
Anyway, this morning i popped on down to my local John Lewis (for unrelated reasons) at 9.20am.
No queues apparent or anything.
Talking to the electrical sales assistants, they described to me that “the last person from this morning's big queue has just been served - the queue went all the way past WH Smith you know!”
“Oh?” said I.
“Yes” the assistant continued, “we brought in extra staff from 6am and it was quite fun”
“So you sold out then?”
“Actually, we have just one left I think, but it's only a 16GB WiFi model in black”
“Bingo”, thought I.
2 minutes, no queuing and £399 later, I have a brown box in a John Lewis bag (that was a nice touch Apple, to reduce mugging I suppose).
The first thing on getting home was to cancel my pre-order, as well as the extra year £69 Applecare that I had ordered (my 3 yr old son will be playing with this, it seemed prudent) when suddenly it dawned on me - not only was John Lewis really nice and easy to buy from, but they automatically provide for free a 2 year warranty direct with John Lewis. I had completely forgotten this! Win and win for me this morning :)
As for the ipad itself…. well i am a happy customer, but lets also keep it real - it's just an ipad.
It's nice, it works, the screen is good, but thats about it - it's not the next saviour.
My wife has a playbook that is also really good (especially for the money), and its funny how the ipad feels less easy to carry by comparison (naturally, 7 inch vs 10 inch, which is unfair perhaps to compare, but none-the-less we've gotten used to the playbook).
It was nice to get back in to some of my old 3GS apps which we still sitting there like old friends, via iTunes etc.
The Rightmove for ipad app has been pretty useful this evening too so far.
I've put a few photos on, including a few folders for my son (visuals of food types, activities etc to help him) - all in all pretty much as expected.
My advice - lower any silly hopes and expectations - it is just an ipad 2 with a nicer screen, but after a few minutes of playing you quickly forget that and just use it as a device; and as a device i find that it works quite well.
I spectacularly imploded and despite having an iPad 2, ordered an iPad 3 from Tesco. I'll pick it up on Monday night all things going well.
Why? Because I need a second iPad… The wife and sprog are constantly using my own iPad and I want one of my own so I can have access to all my email (business stuff) and not have random spam flying out to people I know.
And also, Android tablets just don't cut it. Android is a pitiful imitation of iOS that is requires overpowered hardware to get even close to what the original iPad can offer. 'Nuff said!
Bluecube
And also, Android tablets just don't cut it. Android is a pitiful imitation of iOS that is requires overpowered hardware to get even close to what the original iPad can offer. 'Nuffield said!
Indeed.
Bluecube
And also, Android tablets just don't cut it. Android is a pitiful imitation of iOS that is requires overpowered hardware to get even close to what the original iPad can offer. 'Nuff said!
:stupid: bulls**t!
I'll happily put my dual-core Transformer up against your dual-core iPad2 any day - and match it easily. I'm guessing that the quad-core Infinity/Transformer Prime will speed match the iPad3 for normal use as well (
yes I know that the TP is slower in some benchmarks than the iPad3 - but the figure I saw seem to point to faster graphics in the iPad3)
That said, I hope you enjoy your new iPad3 when it arrives - I'm sure that you'll enjoy it.
spoon_
Keep us updated please!
Well so far it's been awesome. Much faster than my iPad 1, the screen is simply amazing. I cannot believe anyone can make something of it's quality for such a small price. I cannot wait for the technology to expand to the desktop!
The camera and other improvements from the iPad are a nice touch. However I won't be using the camera much, I just wanted a forward facing one for skype.
Safari is a pleasure to use on it.
I only have three complaints so far:
1. The apps that haven't yet been updated to the new graphics level
2. My wife would like to steal it!
3. 16gb isn't enough these days. I'm very glad I went for the 32gb version.
Roobubba
Well, my 10-month old macbook pro has just bricked itself (stutter, stutter, hang… reboot - nothing).
Take it into an apple store, they will fix it…
Never understood people complaining about things like this. It's under warranty get it replaced. It happens with any brand of computer. The difference is that with apple you can actually get something done about it quickly on the high street.
I
Gordy
Take it into an apple store, they will fix it…
Never understood people complaining about things like this. It's under warranty get it replaced. It happens with any brand of computer. The difference is that with apple you can actually get something done about it quickly on the high street.
I'll take my next business day home repair service from dell thank you very much! :)