With the greatest respect - I don't think we can really call this survey “independent” considering it was taken as a poll across multiple sites that are primarily dedicated to Java mobile development. Taking that into account, the results are pretty much what you would expect.

Most people are developing for iOS at present as thats where the money is (so much easer to make cash out of iPhone apps than any other at the moment), but clearly they would prefer to develop for their “native” platform, and would be planning to do so in the future - especially with the growth of android phones in the mobile space.

Personally I am aiming for cross platform development - we are investigating and prototyping with Adobe AIR since you can write once and then deploy to iOS/Android/Blackberry. Clearly there are major issues with this approach but for simple apps its quick and easy. If I wanted a new job though, i'd go iOS as there is a lot of money there at the moment. If I wanted to develop for the community/open source, i'd go down the android route as there is plenty of support and “routes to market” there.

I think everything I've read puts iOS as more profitable right now - android per unit not so much but as it pulls forward the sheers numbers increase the userbase to a tipping point where it's probably more profitable. I'm not convinced it's there yet though.

Spud1
Personally I am aiming for cross platform development - we are investigating and prototyping with Adobe AIR since you can write once and then deploy to iOS/Android/Blackberry. Clearly there are major issues with this approach but for simple apps its quick and easy. If I wanted a new job though, i'd go iOS as there is a lot of money there at the moment. If I wanted to develop for the community/open source, i'd go down the android route as there is plenty of support and “routes to market” there.

Interesting comment - not just the quoted bit above - thanks! :bowdown:

I thought Apple were dead set against app builders - especially the ones from the large players (so stuff like Illuminations was fine)?

Secondly, I was always under the impression that to develop for iOS there was a whole lot of expense that you had to sign up for - special tools that only ran on OSX; developer registration fees; etc. On the other hand Android and WebOS had free tools/SDK's that run on Windows, and any “developer fees” were quite low. Is this a correct summation of the situation, or is it just based on propaganda put around by the anti-Apple crowd?

I'm curious as to how difficult mobile device development is, although it does appear to the way things are going. Initially I'd assumed Android would be best for a hobbyist, but your comments raise some doubts. I'm a big fan of ‘droid personally, but there’s just as many iOS devices in the house as Android ones - so it'd be easy to pick one or the other.

crossy
Is this right, or is it just propaganda put around by the anti-Apple crowd?

It is indeed propaganda..to a degree.

On one level, if you take the 100% official purist approach..developing for iOS requires a mac running 10.5 or later, an iOS device, and an apple developer account. Assuming you have nothing at all - thats £500 for a mac mini and then £60 for your developer account.

You don't /need/ any of that though - the only thing that you could say you /need/ would be the developer account, but even then that is only for publishing your apps to the app store.

You can develop on windows using a 3rd party toolset or API (e.g. adobe AIR) and then deploy to your device via iTunes - or just run it in an emulator. Apple were very strongly against systems like AIR in the past, but about a year ago the T+Cs changed in the app store, allowing these apps to be published and sold. There are plenty of alternatives to AIR - including variants of Mono/.net, and some java compilers too..but AIR has the biggest feature set if you can put up with action script (which is HORRIBLE to work with). Also makes it very easy for your graphics designer to do some pretty front end screens ;)

The purest approach is easiest and the most fun (I enjoy working in objective-c at the moment, its a refreshing change for me) but does require you to own a mac and a developer account..but it can be done without paying a penny :)

Androids developer fee is 1/4 that of iOS ($25 compared to $99), but both are still tiny compared to the traditional fees that you'd pay to develop software for a mobile device.

Spud1
It is indeed propaganda..to a degree.On one level, if you take the 100% official purist approach..developing for iOS requires a mac running 10.5 or later, an iOS device, and an apple developer account. Assuming you have nothing at all - thats £500 for a mac mini and then £60 for your developer account. Androids developer fee is 1/4 that of iOS ($25 compared to $99), but both are still tiny compared to the traditional fees that you'd pay to develop software for a mobile device.

Hmm, I'm Mac-less, so it looks like my tinkering will be on Android - anything more than £100 for a “play around” is probably too much - certainly according to my missus it is… ;)

Of course, if I'd been clever then I would have got myself an HP TouchPad - HP are falling over themselves to get folks to develop for WebOS - at least according to the info I read.

Many, many thanks for the info. :thumbsup:

Spud1
It is indeed propaganda..to a degree.

On one level, if you take the 100% official purist approach..developing for iOS requires a mac running 10.5 or later, an iOS device, and an apple developer account. Assuming you have nothing at all - thats £500 for a mac mini and then £60 for your developer account.

You don't /need/ any of that though - the only thing that you could say you /need/ would be the developer account, but even then that is only for publishing your apps to the app store.

You can develop on windows using a 3rd party toolset or API (e.g. adobe AIR) and then deploy to your device via iTunes - or just run it in an emulator. Apple were very strongly against systems like AIR in the past, but about a year ago the T+Cs changed in the app store, allowing these apps to be published and sold. There are plenty of alternatives to AIR - including variants of Mono/.net, and some java compilers too..but AIR has the biggest feature set if you can put up with action script (which is HORRIBLE to work with). Also makes it very easy for your graphics designer to do some pretty front end screens ;)

The purest approach is easiest and the most fun (I enjoy working in objective-c at the moment, its a refreshing change for me) but does require you to own a mac and a developer account..but it can be done without paying a penny :)

Androids developer fee is 1/4 that of iOS ($25 compared to $99), but both are still tiny compared to the traditional fees that you'd pay to develop software for a mobile device.

or you can buy a second hand mac for less than £200 and become a developer for free. you don't need to buy a new computer

uni I thought they still charged for submissions?

and why would I want to buy an old slow second hand mac for £200, and loose the best dev environment on the market by a long shot (jetbrains, how I love the!)

TheAnimus
uni I thought they still charged for submissions?

and why would I want to buy an old slow second hand mac for £200, and loose the best dev environment on the market by a long shot (jetbrains, how I love the!)

Yeah you still need to pay for that.

TheAnimus
uni I thought they still charged for submissions?

and why would I want to buy an old slow second hand mac for £200, and loose the best dev environment on the market by a long shot (jetbrains, how I love the!)

who says it's going to be slow? and you can run bootcamp and install windows, linux, etc legally

and to join the dev thing is free. you only have to pay if you want to release apps. so if you never get round to making anything worth releasing it doesn't have to cost to join

uni
who says it's going to be slow? and you can run bootcamp and install windows, linux, etc legally

and to join the dev thing is free. you only have to pay if you want to release apps. so if you never get round to making anything worth releasing it doesn't have to cost to join

It's not free if you want to deploy to any iPhone (even your own) - you need a paid up developer licence to be able to deploy to dev devices. You can develop for free though yes as you can run apps in the emulator until you want to pay your registration fee.

You are also right that it won't be slow - you can get an older intel mac mini for around £200 and develop for iOS on that - indeed this is exactly what I did when I started out with iOS development, since i'd upgraded my mac pro gfx card to one that OSX didn't support. It worked like a charm and wasn't slow at all for development.

XCode is nowhere near as much of a resource hog as Visual “grab all the resources you can find, and then get some more” Studio. (granted i't also rubbish in comparison, but hey ho!)

It looks like we are seeing a balancing of the eco-systems. I'd expect any serious developer to be making apps for both Android and iOS at the same time to maximise profits. And the upcoming move of Nokia to WP7 is clearly also having a pull on developers. This is definitely the one I'm most interested in right now as we've already reached app saturation on Android and iOS.

uni
or you can buy a second hand mac for less than £200 and become a developer for free. you don't need to buy a new computer

I just checked eBay and all the Intel-powered MacMini's are £250+ - shame, as I quite fancied having some FaceTime ;) with OS-X (so I could see if it's as good a *nix box as the fans claim). Much as I like PowerPC even I know that this is “obsolete”, so I'll just have to keep an eye out.

Spud1
It's not free if you want to deploy to any iPhone (even your own) - you need a paid up developer licence to be able to deploy to dev devices. You can develop for free though yes as you can run apps in the emulator until you want to pay your registration fee.

Darn. :( While my coding won't be anywhere near good enough to go onto iTunes App Store, it would have been nice to be able to splat stuff onto the devices we've got here. Emulators are okay, but there's not the sense of achievement you get seeing the code running on a real device.

Spud1
XCode is nowhere near as much of a resource hog as Visual “grab all the resources you can find, and then get some more” Studio. (granted i't also rubbish in comparison, but hey ho!)

Yep, I looked at Visual Studio (the work wanted me to do VB and/or C#) and I was amazed by the sprawling nature of it. I was less impressed when it decided to start stuffing content on my C: drive (which is a smallish SSD) when I was trying to make sure everything went on D: (which is a large, normal HD). Grr!

crossy
I just checked eBay and all the Intel-powered MacMini's are £250+ - shame, as I quite fancied having some FaceTime ;) with OS-X (so I could see if it's as good a *nix box as the fans claim). Much as I like PowerPC even I know that this is “obsolete”, so I'll just have to keep an eye out.

Darn. :( While my coding won't be anywhere near good enough to go onto iTunes App Store, it would have been nice to be able to splat stuff onto the devices we've got here. Emulators are okay, but there's not the sense of achievement you get seeing the code running on a real device.

Yep, I looked at Visual Studio (the work wanted me to do VB and/or C#) and I was amazed by the sprawling nature of it. I was less impressed when it decided to start stuffing content on my C: drive (which is a smallish SSD) when I was trying to make sure everything went on D: (which is a large, normal HD). Grr!

i've seen macminis go for less than £200. i think £180 recently. i've seen even cheaper macs than that that were intel based

if you really don't want to pay to put out an app you can always go down the cydia route or use one of the few other non official app stores, so you can make an app and get people using it all for free. the £60 is only if you want to use the app store

you can even sign up for the dev account without a mac. you just need an itunes log in, which you can do on any windows pc. i'm not sure if you even need itunes to do it. so you could develop on a hackingtosh and stick an app out on cydia all for free

i think you can even decelop on the old PPC macs, and you can pick them up for £50 or less these days

uni
i've seen macminis go for less than £200. i think £180 recently. i've seen even cheaper macs than that that were intel based

if you really don't want to pay to put out an app you can always go down the cydia route or use one of the few other non official app stores, so you can make an app and get people using it all for free. the £60 is only if you want to use the app store

you can even sign up for the dev account without a mac. you just need an itunes log in, which you can do on any windows pc. i'm not sure if you even need itunes to do it. so you could develop on a hackingtosh and stick an app out on cydia all for free

i think you can even decelop on the old PPC macs, and you can pick them up for £50 or less these days

This is true - you only need the dev account so that you can get your developer certificate..if you jailbreak then you remove this requirement. You can still develop using the official libraries and using XCode, but you can install without a certificate.

I've also seen mac minis go for under £200 - but they can reach crazy prices too - I bought mine for around £200 but sold it for double that..its all down to timing. Apple products reach their peak in pricing just as a new model is about to be released (or when one just has)..so buy mid cycle ;)

Don't get a PPC based one as you cannot develop on that with the latest libraries - the latest XCode versions require intel based macs (and possibly even Lion..can't be 100% certain, that may only be for iOS5 dev).

Spud1
This is true - you only need the dev account so that you can get your developer certificate..if you jailbreak then you remove this requirement. You can still develop using the official libraries and using XCode, but you can install without a certificate.

I've also seen mac minis go for under £200 - but they can reach crazy prices too - I bought mine for around £200 but sold it for double that..its all down to timing. Apple products reach their peak in pricing just as a new model is about to be released (or when one just has)..so buy mid cycle ;)

Don't get a PPC based one as you cannot develop on that with the latest libraries - the latest XCode versions require intel based macs (and possibly even Lion..can't be 100% certain, that may only be for iOS5 dev).

the very latest xcode “needs” lion (or snow leopard?) as you have to download it from the app store that only snow leopard and lion has, but the earlier version is downloaded from the apple website and can be downloaded on firefox on windows, or linux etc. i'm not sure if that drops PPC or the previous version does, but you could get a version of it that will run on an old PPC computer and develop and app and release on cydia

the mac mini has been out for years so prices will vary depending on if you have a 5+ year old model or a new 2011 model. i've seen C2D models for £180 or less, but new ones are about £500-£600 onwards. you can get second hand C2D laptops for less than £250 if you look around

Uni/Spud1 - thanks, that's all useful information. Like I said, I'm quite interested in OS X - just a damned, damned shame that I can't get it (legally) on the Dell D620 that I've got here. :(

As you say - I'll just have to keep an eye on eBay. C2D basis doesn't worry me - I've got that Dell running Ubuntu (and a shed load of VM's on top on that Ubuntu install) - and it's plenty fast enough. ;)