I just wonder how many other customers have been paid off?

Business as usual for Apple.

Apparently the US government's Federal Communication Comittee is investigating into complaints for the withdrawal of Google Voice apps. Apple needs more government pressure both in the US, and in Europe.

If your device explodes, then under warranty you are presumably entitled to a new one… that's a fair settlement!

Silence on the subject should cost Apple LOT more… fair enough they can ask him to keep quiet, but they need to make it worth his while, as as the occurrence of this story has shown, they rather spectacularly failed - whoever at Apple tried this was a total idiot for thinking it would stay out of the press when the bribe was actually zero, given that Ken should be entitled to a new iPod anyway!

Failure as usual, i bet they dont get any pressure from the EU or US but Microsoft do :P. I always fail to see the point of the ipod, it cost more than double that of a sandisk equivilant and the audio quality is just OK nothing great unlike cowon and sandisk along with others! And they always break! Most of my friends have an ipod (shuffle/touch/classic etc) and they have all broken, some in a space of 2 months and some in 13 where they got no help from apple, yet other companies offer 2+ warranty and they dont break!. So really, is there a good point for ipods?

Oh wait there is, apple branding so people can “boast” they have an “apple” thing to show they have some money, and the itunes which is said to be amazing but i dont see the fuss, albeit iam anti apple so wouldnt of tried it!.

God, I can't wait for someone to take Apple down a peg or two.

I think the EU should do something about apple.
It appalling behaviour IMO.
Apple are a bunch of assholes.
how do they get away with it?

I have an ipod but only because i won it and only used it a few times. the audio quality is rubbish. surely you buy a audio player for listening to music and not for looking at?

lol? What the hell are they playing at. Defo need a kick up the back side.

Instead of trying to keep things quiet, why doesn;t Apple just fix things?

OilSheikh
Instead of trying to keep things quiet, why doesn;t Apple just fix things?

Because that would imply that there's something inherently wrong with Apple products, and welding in batteries into a product turns out to be an idiotic idea. Apple are omnipotent and perfect, remember?

lodore
I think the EU should do something about apple.
It appalling behaviour IMO.
Apple are a bunch of assholes.
how do they get away with it?

I have an ipod but only because i won it and only used it a few times. the audio quality is rubbish. surely you buy a audio player for listening to music and not for looking at?

Correction, the headphones that ship by default with the iPods are rubbish. Replace them with a half decent pair and it is on par if not better than most players on the market. They are a profit making company, and want to make money, hence:

They will attempt to avoid any publicity that will reduce sales, hence why they asked this person to keep quiet about it, and why they quietly worked on a fix for the iPhone SMS vaurability and released an untested, and potentionally more vaurnable, patch the day after the media storm, a concept called damage control.

And they are only arseholes because most of their customers are stuck up snobs that don't know the different between an ethernet and a USB port. I have dealt with their support reps on numous ocassions and I always get the feeling they have spent the rest of the day talking to idoits. I guess it comes with their target market.

nightkhaos
Correction, the headphones that ship by default with the iPods are rubbish. Replace them with a half decent pair and it is on par if not better than most players on the market. They are a profit making company, and want to make money, hence:

They will attempt to avoid any publicity that will reduce sales, hence why they asked this person to keep quiet about it, and why they quietly worked on a fix for the iPhone SMS vaurability and released an untested, and potentionally more vaurnable, patch the day after the media storm, a concept called damage control.

And they are only arseholes because most of their customers are stuck up snobs that don't know the different between an ethernet and a USB port. I have dealt with their support reps on numous ocassions and I always get the feeling they have spent the rest of the day talking to idoits. I guess it comes with their target market.

Hello,
I use decent headphones and my sony mp3 player definatly sounds better using the same headphones and playing the same music.
its still not a good business practice threating the customer when their product exploded…

nightkhaos
Correction, the headphones that ship by default with the iPods are rubbish. Replace them with a half decent pair and it is on par if not better than most players on the market. They are a profit making company, and want to make money, hence:

They will attempt to avoid any publicity that will reduce sales, hence why they asked this person to keep quiet about it, and why they quietly worked on a fix for the iPhone SMS vaurability and released an untested, and potentionally more vaurnable, patch the day after the media storm, a concept called damage control.

And they are only arseholes because most of their customers are stuck up snobs that don't know the different between an ethernet and a USB port. I have dealt with their support reps on numous ocassions and I always get the feeling they have spent the rest of the day talking to idoits. I guess it comes with their target market.

Just because 80% of people in this world are ignorant asses doesn't mean companies have the right to then be complete and utter asses themselves in return. Its not acceptable regardless of their customer base or profit fulfilling ways.

I believe the main problem with apple is that their product is by far inferior to similar priced products on the market and thus if rumour gets around that there is an inherent flaw in the design they will end up with a dead product that they spend billions building a brand for.

I have a Cowon D2, spent £130 on it, my cousin has the iPod touch costing £165. Mine has MUCH better sound quality using the same earphones, has 52 hours playback time compared to 36 from the iPod, has a touch screen 18 months before the iPod touch was released and the screen still has better quality ratio to the touch, plays more audio/video codecs allowing a much larger range of file support, has a SD card slot so you can have endless amounts of storage depending on how many cards you can carry on your person and last but not least my machine can play movies staored on it on a TV, yes it has TV out. The only thing the touch has as an advantage is apps and games, who buys an mp3 player to play games on? Playing games/using apps means 4-8 hours of battery life so kind of makes it useless for its primary purpose.

Current pricing; Cowon D2 16Gb - £155
iPod Touch 16Gb - £214

£59 for games and apps with much worse sound quality. Bigger screen negated by TV out for the Cowon and no option for added memory capacity. For me its a fail product selling only on looks/branding, almost all other music players are better value, most others are better quality.

lodore
Hello,
I use decent headphones and my sony mp3 player definatly sounds better using the same headphones and playing the same music.
its still not a good business practice threating the customer when their product exploded…

Okay, I'll give you that one. I guess my problem is that prior to my iPod Classic G5.5 I had some no name brand that was well, a piece of crap not worth the metal and silcon it was made from. And I also had a series of MP3 players that ALL broke within 3 months, one of them sad to say, was a CREATIVE one. The Apple one sounded much better, and was a much better built quality. I have since moved onto an iPhone 16GB which is slightly better again that G5.5.

So it is possible, given these experiences with some brands, that I have placed Apple in higher regard than I should. Sony I have not had the privlage of listening through, I might consider getting them if it wasn't for my iPhone.

ExHail
Just because 80% of people in this world are ignorant asses doesn't mean companies have the right to then be complete and utter asses themselves in return. Its not acceptable regardless of their customer base or profit fulfilling ways.

I agree with you, I know from my stance of defending Apple that it may appear that I forgive them for this particular shortcoming, but I do not. I avoid their support where possible, and only go to see their “Geniuses” as a last resort.

I believe the main problem with apple is that their product is by far inferior to similar priced products on the market and thus if rumour gets around that there is an inherent flaw in the design they will end up with a dead product that they spend billions building a brand for.

No, it is not by far inferior than similar priced products, you, just like every other geek who regulars these forums, knows how to shop around, and if you pick any other product you are likely to pick one that has had postive reviews, good build quality, etc. For a general consumer, like my dad, who was the one who bought me every MP3 player up until I got myself an iPod, this is not something they would consider doing, and are more likely to pick up an inferior product to Apple's.

Yes, they overcharge, yes there are better products, yes they need to be more transprant. I am not of the opionion that they are some unfaultable god, I am not that nieve, I am just sick and tired of people using little mistakes to bash them. Battery explosions in the MacBooks and iPods are the fault of Sony anyway and a bad batch of Li-Ion batches, we would be wise to remember this. Are you aware that the medium you have chosen for this is unlikely to attact any of the people who will actually benefit from your wisdom?

I know that this is likely to be falling of death ears and this is likely to discolour your opionion of me, but it has to be said.

nightkhaos
I know that this is likely to be falling of death ears and this is likely to discolour your opionion of me, but it has to be said.

Arrgghhh, it's the evil Apple death ears! Run for your lives!

nightkhaos
Battery explosions in the MacBooks and iPods are the fault of Sony anyway and a bad batch of Li-Ion batches, we would be wise to remember this.

Actually its entirely Apple's fault. Faulty batch of battery's or not, making your devices in such a way that the battery cannot be removed/replaced entirely puts the blame on you for poor design. Should they have designed the devices better they could have sent replacement battery's out and they could be swapped easily.

Arthran
Actually its entirely Apple's fault. Faulty batch of battery's or not, making your devices in such a way that the battery cannot be removed/replaced entirely puts the blame on you for poor design. Should they have designed the devices better they could have sent replacement battery's out and they could be swapped easily.

And how many general consumers, the target market of Apple products, have the expertise required to replace a battery in a airsealed electronic device? Not many I'll wager.

Airsealed… My point.

Standard laptop, the battery slides out the back. Standard phone like a nokia, you just pop the back off and there's the battery (which users HAVE to do before they can fit their sim in the first place)
Make the process simple and everybody from users to tech support are happy.

Make things airtight and un-removable… and all hell breaks loose

Arthran
Airsealed… My point.

Standard laptop, the battery slides out the back. Standard phone like a nokia, you just pop the back off and there's the battery (which users HAVE to do before they can fit their sim in the first place)
Make the process simple and everybody from users to tech support are happy.

Make things airtight and un-removable… and all hell breaks loose

That is a point, however, let me make another one, how many laptops and phones can you drop into a glass of water and still have them function afterwards? There are advantages to having a sealed system, and those advantages don't just magickally go away when there is a problem.

And this isn't an Apple isolated partice either, it's just Apple have had the unfortunate problem of being the market leader which means that a) people actually give a :censored: when they battery of that particular device only lasts 18 months and b) if something goes wrong, the media catches onto it like wildfire, this article being a case and point.

Sony create airsealed, battery soildered media players as well, and I don't see you bashing them for it, particularly when they are even MORE likely to have an issue than Apple because they are the manufactures of the defective Li-Ion batteries that have caused this risk in the first place.

It seems to me you have a clear bias towards Apple, which you are welcome too, just don't expect me to sit here and let you spit out FUD because you have nothing better to do.

nightkhaos
That is a point, however, let me make another one, how many laptops and phones can you drop into a glass of water and still have them function afterwards? There are advantages to having a sealed system, and those advantages don't just magickally go away when there is a problem.

You can't with an iPhone thou? They aren't waterproof or even weather proofed. I know of some excellent mobile phones which are! (and still have user servicable batteries)

nightkhaos
Sony create airsealed, battery soildered media players as well, and I don't see you bashing them for it, particularly when they are even MORE likely to have an issue than Apple because they are the manufactures of the defective Li-Ion batteries that have caused this risk in the first place.

Do they? Not on my X series, its removeable, and includes instructions for disposal.

nightkhaos
It seems to me you have a clear bias towards Apple, which you are welcome too, just don't expect me to sit here and let you spit out FUD because you have nothing better to do.

I think he does a bit, but it is kind of hard not to given the way they have acted in this instance.

Have you guys heard the news that one employee of Foxcoon (who is a supplier to Apple) who lost an Apple sample and he was so scared (due to threats by his managers) that he killed himself?

Why did his manager make threats to him? All leads back to Apple and its ugly corporation.

nightkhaos
Sony create airsealed, battery soildered media players as well, and I don't see you bashing them for it, particularly when they are even MORE likely to have an issue than Apple because they are the manufactures of the defective Li-Ion batteries that have caused this risk in the first place.

Except this is a thread detailing apple's problems, not sony's. Give me a thread detailing sony devices exploding and i'll make the same argument. Its not apple bashing, its design for the sake of prettyness bashing. Maybe im old fashioned that i prefer design for function over form.

nightkhaos
It seems to me you have a clear bias towards Apple, which you are welcome too, just don't expect me to sit here and let you spit out FUD because you have nothing better to do.

Actually i have no Bias towards Apple, i have a Dislike for poor design and bad customer service. Its as simple as that. Get another news post with a similar story for another manufacturer, and i'll rant about them as well. (disclaimer, this can only happen when i am a. awake and b. on the ball!)

And i'll think you'll find I'm not spitting things out simply because i have nothing better to do, Simply put I'll always fight on the side of the consumer, and a company as large and far reaching as Apple should know better than to handle this situation so badly, to design a product where battery's cannot be replaced and to not deal with a faulty batch of battery's better (Product recall for safety anybody? hell, blame the sony battery's in the process making yourself look good and putting all the blame on sony, Apple would have won from a PR point of view then, instead they have messed it up bigtime.)

TheAnimus
You can't with an iPhone thou? They aren't waterproof or even weather proofed. I know of some excellent mobile phones which are! (and still have user servicable batteries)

I don't recommend you do it, but there have been some stress tests done on the iPhone 3G that show it can withstand being dropped in water and still function. There are phones specifically designed for the purpose which I would recommend you drop into water just cause ya can however…

Do they? Not on my X series, its removeable, and includes instructions for disposal.

My dad has one. It's not one of their better models, and it's not standard practice, but they do make them.

I think he does a bit, but it is kind of hard not to given the way they have acted in this instance.

This is true, try being a MobileMe customer, and you'll understand how much I want to agree with this guy, even through he is spreading blantant lies. (Or at least it appears that way until he makes his position clear, see below). Unfortuantly my morals stood out in this instance, and the resistance to say “APPLE SUCKS AT TRANSPARNCY!” was silcened for another day. Oh wait…

Arthran
Except this is a thread detailing apple's problems, not sony's. Give me a thread detailing sony devices exploding and i'll make the same argument. Its not apple bashing, its design for the sake of prettyness bashing. Maybe im old fashioned that i prefer design for function over form.

Actually i have no Bias towards Apple, i have a Dislike for poor design and bad customer service. Its as simple as that. Get another news post with a similar story for another manufacturer, and i'll rant about them as well. (disclaimer, this can only happen when i am a. awake and b. on the ball!)

And i'll think you'll find I'm not spitting things out simply because i have nothing better to do, Simply put I'll always fight on the side of the consumer, and a company as large and far reaching as Apple should know better than to handle this situation so badly, to design a product where battery's cannot be replaced and to not deal with a faulty batch of battery's better (Product recall for safety anybody? hell, blame the sony battery's in the process making yourself look good and putting all the blame on sony, Apple would have won from a PR point of view then, instead they have messed it up bigtime.)

See, now you're thinking like a Vulcan. I agree with these points, I just wish you had make them thus in the first place. It seemed to me that you were bashing Apple for the sake of bashing Apple. I therefore apologise for my assumptions.

No matter whether you are an Apple fanboy or not, you have to admit Apple did a major own goal here.

Apple denied the basic right to get your money back when the product is faulty (not to mention life threatening).

Buying Apple? Buyer beware.

usxhe190
No matter whether you are an Apple fanboy or not, you have to admit Apple did a major own goal here.

Apple denied the basic right to get your money back when the product is faulty (not to mention life threatening).

Buying Apple? Buyer beware.

Same can be said with every major American Captailist company. It's unfortunate reflection on the world state. Greed is rampet.

nightkhaos
Same can be said with every major American Captailist company. It's unfortunate reflection on the world state. Greed is rampet.

Yes it can (look at Google and Nintendo). That's why its hard for me to be a fanboy of anything…

nightkhaos
Okay, I'll give you that one. I guess my problem is that prior to my iPod Classic G5.5 I had some no name brand that was well, a piece of crap not worth the metal and silcon it was made from. And I also had a series of MP3 players that ALL broke within 3 months, one of them sad to say, was a CREATIVE one. The Apple one sounded much better, and was a much better built quality. I have since moved onto an iPhone 16GB which is slightly better again that G5.5.

So it is possible, given these experiences with some brands, that I have placed Apple in higher regard than I should. Sony I have not had the privlage of listening through, I might consider getting them if it wasn't for my iPhone.



I agree with you, I know from my stance of defending Apple that it may appear that I forgive them for this particular shortcoming, but I do not. I avoid their support where possible, and only go to see their “Geniuses” as a last resort.



No, it is not by far inferior than similar priced products, you, just like every other geek who regulars these forums, knows how to shop around, and if you pick any other product you are likely to pick one that has had postive reviews, good build quality, etc. For a general consumer, like my dad, who was the one who bought me every MP3 player up until I got myself an iPod, this is not something they would consider doing, and are more likely to pick up an inferior product to Apple's.

Yes, they overcharge, yes there are better products, yes they need to be more transprant. I am not of the opionion that they are some unfaultable god, I am not that nieve, I am just sick and tired of people using little mistakes to bash them. Battery explosions in the MacBooks and iPods are the fault of Sony anyway and a bad batch of Li-Ion batches, we would be wise to remember this. Are you aware that the medium you have chosen for this is unlikely to attact any of the people who will actually benefit from your wisdom?

I know that this is likely to be falling of death ears and this is likely to discolour your opionion of me, but it has to be said.

Quite the opposite in fact, you see unlike many people I enjoy a good discussion with intelligent thinking involved. Its unfortunate that often I come across unfavourably because of the unsavoury encounters I often find, but I do try to refrain from bashing.

In the case of Apple specifically, myself and family(family extends to 50+ people, couldn't be bothered to get an accurate count, its a lot) have had bad experiences with apple which obviously makes for a bad general opinion of them. I also had the unfortunate job of fixing Apple machines for some time, and while all companies have returns where they fix products I managed to find some rather unique design flaws with Apple machines(laptops, desktops and iPods) which sits very unfavourably with me.

That being said they do have some really good designs but those that get the good ones are paying a premium for a good design and lesser products that don't get as much attention given to them, resulting in an inferior product in comparison to most competitors, are then thought to be good when in fact they are not. The good reputation Apple get from their good products seems to hold the bad products up above competitors in general consumers minds which is what I really dislike.

I know I am not the average consumer, its rather sad to think that people just go and buy stuff without thinking properly about it and finding what suits them best. Following brands and marketing is probably the worst thing consumers can do these days.

So while I accept there are good things about some Apple products I find that their MP3 players, which actually play AAC files(default codec for iTunes), are more often than not worse than competitors. I hope this battery problem, although not a problem fitting of destroying a product, brings new light to the fact that there are many other products which are better for the general consumer.

I think the way Apple handled the situation also makes things far worse and is a much more serious concern for customers. I for one never do business with companies who behave like that, they do not deserve reward for such shocking conduct.

ExHail
Quite the opposite in fact, you see unlike many people I enjoy a good discussion with intelligent thinking involved. Its unfortunate that often I come across unfavourably because of the unsavoury encounters I often find, but I do try to refrain from bashing.

In the case of Apple specifically, myself and family(family extends to 50+ people, couldn't be bothered to get an accurate count, its a lot) have had bad experiences with apple which obviously makes for a bad general opinion of them. I also had the unfortunate job of fixing Apple machines for some time, and while all companies have returns where they fix products I managed to find some rather unique design flaws with Apple machines(laptops, desktops and iPods) which sits very unfavourably with me.

That being said they do have some really good designs but those that get the good ones are paying a premium for a good design and lesser products that don't get as much attention given to them, resulting in an inferior product in comparison to most competitors, are then thought to be good when in fact they are not. The good reputation Apple get from their good products seems to hold the bad products up above competitors in general consumers minds which is what I really dislike.

I know I am not the average consumer, its rather sad to think that people just go and buy stuff without thinking properly about it and finding what suits them best. Following brands and marketing is probably the worst thing consumers can do these days.

So while I accept there are good things about some Apple products I find that their MP3 players, which actually play AAC files(default codec for iTunes), are more often than not worse than competitors. I hope this battery problem, although not a problem fitting of destroying a product, brings new light to the fact that there are many other products which are better for the general consumer.

I think the way Apple handled the situation also makes things far worse and is a much more serious concern for customers. I for one never do business with companies who behave like that, they do not deserve reward for such shocking conduct.

Apple have yet to grasp the concept of the Internet I think. How information can spread very fast in todays day and age, and that you can no longer sliently deploy bug fixes or work on a new top-secert iPad without someone, somewhere, noticing, and putting it on their blog. If they begin to appericate that, and adjust their marketing practices accordingly, then they wouldn't be the devilchild that everyone seems to think they are.

It's possible that if they do this they will start to produce better products, and drop their prices, and most importantly, tell people when something goes terriably terriably wrong that their boofins are working on.

usxhe190
Have you guys heard the news that one employee of Foxcoon (who is a supplier to Apple) who lost an Apple sample and he was so scared (due to threats by his managers) that he killed himself?

Why did his manager make threats to him? All leads back to Apple and its ugly corporation.

Yeah I did hear/read about that. Completely shocking :o

nightkhaos
Apple have yet to grasp the concept of the Internet I think. How information can spread very fast in todays day and age, and that you can no longer sliently deploy bug fixes or work on a new top-secert iPad without someone, somewhere, noticing, and putting it on their blog. If they begin to appericate that, and adjust their marketing practices accordingly, then they wouldn't be the devilchild that everyone seems to think they are.

It's possible that if they do this they will start to produce better products, and drop their prices, and most importantly, tell people when something goes terriably terriably wrong that their boofins are working on.

Naw, the problem with Apple will always persist while they spend 90% on marketing, 10% on R&D, and 30% on post-sales damage control when working on a new product.

aidanjt
naw, the problem with apple will always persist while they spend 90% on marketing, 10% on r&d, and 30% on post-sales damage control when working on a new product.

130%?

aidanjt
Naw, the problem with Apple will always persist while they spend 90% on marketing, 10% on R&D, and 30% on post-sales damage control when working on a new product.

nightkhaos
130%?

:laugh: Nice.

That might go into my sig!

nightkhaos
Apple have yet to grasp the concept of the Internet I think. How information can spread very fast in todays day and age, and that you can no longer sliently deploy bug fixes or work on a new top-secert iPad without someone, somewhere, noticing, and putting it on their blog. If they begin to appericate that, and adjust their marketing practices accordingly, then they wouldn't be the devilchild that everyone seems to think they are.

It's possible that if they do this they will start to produce better products, and drop their prices, and most importantly, tell people when something goes terriably terriably wrong that their boofins are working on.

I also feel they live in a web of lies and are unable to crawl out. People have begun to accept honesty as a much more friendly way of dealing with things now opposed to a while back where honesty was considered brutal and to be avoided so as not to offend anyone or cause trouble.

Either way they failed big time with this incident and I hope they learn, be better for everyone. Taken a while but hopefully a massive PR nightmare like this will wake them up.

nightkhaos
130%?

130% is the new 100% :secret:

Although I have no idea what apples spending on products is I'd guess that they spend too much on marketing and too little on R&D, which I would imagine was the point. They should really pay more attention to the product and less attention to branding.

They build up a products reputation and then, unfortunately, don't live up to their own expectations. You'd think they would of learnt somewhere along the line wouldn't you.