IMO manufacturers have forgooten the concept of a netbook and are trying to make them more powerfull like usual, there is absoloutly no point whatsoever t have a dedicated GPU in a netbook the screens are far to small to do anything, surfing the web is annoying at the best of times let alone running photoshop.

Agreed Breezey.

When Asus brought out the EEEpc the whole concept seemed to be very small very cheap computers for web browsing/office stuff. Pricing well under 300 quid and it all looked great.

Now the new sony ones starting at 600 quid and things go bat**** crazy.

Breezey
there is absoloutly no point whatsoever t have a dedicated GPU in a netbook the screens are far to small to do anything

Given that you can easily get a 9 - 10 inch screen with a 1280 x 800 resolution *now* (a couple of the HP netbooks have it already) why not have a GPU that can hardware accelerate 720p content and upscale DVDs (apart form the need for external DVD drive, that is ;) )?

I agree with Pat Moorhead when he said (in a Hexus interview that I'm sure you can find if you want to check) that you can tell there's a gap in the market by the fact that netbook screen sizes increased from 7 -> 9 -> 10 inches fairly rapidly. It suggests people want a small, light but fully functional notebook. What Yukon and Ion should do is bring entry-level laptop performance to a smaller form factor at about the same price. Assuming that happens (i.e. Yukon and Ion based machines cost around £300 - £500) I think netbooks will drop back to sub £250 with max 9" screen, catering for those people who literally just want something to email and surf on while they're out and about.

scaryjim
Given that you can easily get a 9 - 10 inch screen with a 1280 x 800 resolution *now* (a couple of the HP netbooks have it already) why not have a GPU that can hardware accelerate 720p content and upscale DVDs (apart form the need for external DVD drive, that is ;) )?
.

Ok given that the fact a 10“ netbook from HP is around £400 for a decent res , there is no dvd drive so upscaling dvds is out of the question, why not just buy a regular sized notebook or even a 13” with a dvd drive with the intel 4500 onboard gfx as its more than capable of playing 1080p HD so why bother with dedicated when all they really need to do is put a decent chipset in there t start with which will keep costs down rather than adding bits on. Hell my Dell studio runs 1080p wit an x3100 and 8mb of memory.

Net book. It's in the name, and they're not supposed to do much more than browse the web, as Breezy mentioned

Still, if companies can produce a £250 netbook with nvidia 9400 graphics, then why not? As time moves on you're bound to get more features inside the same price bracket.

Fraz
Still, if companies can produce a £250 netbook with nvidia 9400 graphics, then why not? As time moves on you're bound to get more features inside the same price bracket.

Hell wil freeze over before that happens, theres to much hype in the market at the moment so they can charge what they want.

Breezey
Hell wil freeze over before that happens, theres to much hype in the market at the moment so they can charge what they want.

Dunno about you, but I heard in the news recently that there was a global recession on, and consumer spending was down. Guess you must have missed it. ;)

If acer can produce the aspire one for retailing at £150. You are going to have to come up with something very good to beat that price/performance threshold.

We have to netbooks in the house and the are superb. You end up using them far more as you can take them anywhere. They are great in the car for keeping the kids busy on long journeys.

I think they have already changed the way a lot of people think about computers. 90% of computer users need them for a bit of web browsing, some email and the odd picture no more. For this the netbook is perfect.

With windows 7 on a netbook coming soon, they are only going to improve.

Fraz
Dunno about you, but I heard in the news recently that there was a global recession on, and consumer spending was down. Guess you must have missed it. ;)

Well i guess youve missed the current dollar to pound exchange rate.

I think you are missing three major trends that have inadvertantly contributed to the netbook market.

I can remember when even having enough horsepower to run two flash apps or video was a struggle. We passed the line where computing platforms could easily achieve that yonks ago, everything else is a bonus to the general public as apposed to a need.

Apps are moving online, as long as the local machine can render the interface and talk with the server it doesn't need to worry about the heavy lifting. This will only continue.

A broadening of the market has brought people in that don't want to dedicate desks or valuable living space to ‘just’ a computer. Hence the expansion of the laptop market. However as Laptops have bulked up to meet the expectations of desktops. A real portable computing solution has been needed. Witness the false starts of the Tablet PC and UMPCs.

Netbooks are just one of the classic evolutionary forms of computing. I grew up with computers that were in their keyboards and connected to portable TVs. Computer forms change with the times and the needs of customers.

Breezey
Ok given that the fact a 10" netbook from HP is around £400 for a decent res

yes, but the 9" 1280x800 is only £200 on ebuyer (heavily discounted, sure but it's available…)

Breezey
there is no dvd drive so upscaling dvds is out of the question

Hence my tongue in cheek comment about needing an external DVD drive, perhap?

Breezey
why not just buy a regular sized notebook

I have 2. They're heavy and I dislike lugging one around all day when I go to meetings

Breezey
or even a 13" with a dvd drive with the intel 4500 onboard gfx as its more than capable of playing 1080p HD

You can get one for less than £500? Please show me where :)

Breezey
so why bother with dedicated when all they really need to do is put a decent chipset in there t start with which will keep costs down rather than adding bits on.

Ion is a full nForce chipset with 9-series integrated graphics, that will support Atom processors. So it is putting a decent chipset in there to start with. In fact, it's doing exactly what you say OEMs should be doing. So I have to wonder why you are so vehemently opposed to it…

Gunbuster
I grew up with computers that were in their keyboards and connected to portable TVs.

Are you looking forward to the ASUS EEE keyboard as much as I am then? ;)

scaryjim
yes, but the 9" 1280x800 is only £200 on ebuyer (heavily discounted, sure but it's available…)

Fair point didnt know that, still 9" is small imo

scaryjim
Hence my tongue in cheek comment about needing an external DVD drive, perhap?

Just adds extra cost thats why, your not gaining anything getting a netbook just adding extra wieght over more devices

scaryjim
I have 2. They're heavy and I dislike lugging one around all day when I go to meetings
You can get one for less than £500? Please show me where :)

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-13?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&ref=lthp&s=dhs

granted its an X3100 but its still capable of running HD

scaryjim
Ion is a full nForce chipset with 9-series integrated graphics, that will support Atom processors. So it is putting a decent chipset in there to start with. In fact, it's doing exactly what you say OEMs should be doing. So I have to wonder why you are so vehemently opposed to it…

Extra cost becuase its Nvidia, battery life having dedicated over integrated is going to be less, more heat means active cooling = even less power and annoying fans. we will see i could be wrong.

Breezey
Extra cost becuase its Nvidia, battery life having dedicated over integrated is going to be less, more heat means active cooling = even less power and annoying fans. we will see i could be wrong.

Why are you so stuck on this “dedicated” vs. “integrated” thing. You're replying to a post where I've only just pointed out that Ion IS AN INTEGRATED GRAPHICS CHIPSET, ffs. Look, read the hexus review of Ion, please. This is not adding a GeForce graphics card to an Intel-based netbook. It's an entirely different platform. It'll cost slightly more, and potentially have a slightly higher power draw, but it'll also be a lot more powerful. And, if Ion takes off at a starting price of £300, it should drive cheaper 945-based Atom netbooks back down in price and spec to their original starting point, which will also be a good thing. I think you'd probably benefit from forgetting that the word ‘netbook’ exists (it's a horrid marketese word anyway). This is just a slightly more powerful small notebook than the EEEPC and it's like…

scaryjim
Why are you so stuck on this “dedicated” vs. “integrated” thing. You're replying to a post where I've only just pointed out that Ion IS AN INTEGRATED GRAPHICS CHIPSET, ffs. Look, read the hexus review of Ion, please. This is not adding a GeForce graphics card to an Intel-based netbook. It's an entirely different platform. It'll cost slightly more, and potentially have a slightly higher power draw, but it'll also be a lot more powerful. And, if Ion takes off at a starting price of £300, it should drive cheaper 945-based Atom netbooks back down in price and spec to their original starting point, which will also be a good thing. I think you'd probably benefit from forgetting that the word ‘netbook’ exists (it's a horrid marketese word anyway). This is just a slightly more powerful small notebook than the EEEPC and it's like…

At the end of the day the Gefore 9400M uses 12w of power + however much the MCP uses, the intel X3100 uses about the same but includes the northbridge, a higher power consumption is not what you want from a netbook especially from the ones with 30w ish batterys, i cant see your getting rather fustrated so im going to leave it at that.

I considered getting a netbook as a backup or complimentary system to my main rig, but the cost of the decent specced netbooks seem expensive for what they are, plus the technology is still limited somewhat, if the technology improves, ie better processors and graphics, and the prices are kept low, ( as basic netbook should be around £120-50 imo), then personally I think i might buy one, as for the size, you might still need a bag to carry them, but at least there not bulky or heavy, which makes them a good portable choice.

Breezey
the Gefore 9400M uses 12w of power + however much the MCP uses

From the Hexus Ion review:

Apple has announced that it will take the laptop variant, MCP79 (GeForce 9400M)

i.e. the 9400M is the MCP.

You're right, I am getting frustrated; I have no acid or fire with me. So I'll leave it at that.

Breezey
At the end of the day the Gefore 9400M uses 12w of power + however much the MCP uses, the intel X3100 uses about the same but includes the northbridge, a higher power consumption is not what you want from a netbook especially from the ones with 30w ish batterys, i cant see your getting rather fustrated so im going to leave it at that.

For a work laptop, avoid these kind of chipset like plague…
I'm perfectly happy with my Dell 1525, 9.5W ~ 13.5W Typical usage. It could last 5 hours on a 6 cell.
The Mini9 with Atom in comparison, last 4 hours on a 4 cell.

My older laptop with 945 chipset uses 13.5W~19.5W typical. The 965 chipset is a huge advance in power consumption, no idea why they didn't match it with Atom. If they did, theoretically a 9 cell battery could last 16 ~ 24 hours.