Funny how they don't mention how many gpu's they actually put out there to buy….. lot of pr speak about high demand and underestimating how many they'll need but if you only put out ‘1000’ cards (probably more but you get the idea) so as not to be a ‘paper launch’ the demand is always going to outstrip supply.
LSG501
Funny how they don't mention how many gpu's they actually put out there to buy….. lot of pr speak about high demand and underestimating how many they'll need but if you only put out ‘1000’ cards (probably more but you get the idea) so as not to be a ‘paper launch’ the demand is always going to outstrip supply.
Numbers like that will give scalpers an idea of how many cards they can expect to scalp next time around, though.
Already you've seen how buying a couple hundred to flip can return you more than double your investment, even with eBay's fees. If you know you can order in several thousand and flip those, even better…
Besides, there are only so many that can be produced ready for launch, and with this much anticipation most reviewers were forewarning of zero stocks as scalpers always find ways to buy up most of the cards.
What a crock of cack! Underestimated demand….. that just makes worse the level of how stupid they think their consumers are if they expect us to believe that.
Ttaskmaster
Numbers like that will give scalpers an idea of how many cards they can expect to scalp next time around, though.
Already you've seen how buying a couple hundred to flip can return you more than double your investment, even with eBay's fees. If you know you can order in several thousand and flip those, even better…
have better systems in place to prevent it, there's always going to be scalpers but if there is enough supply they can't make a huge profit etc, which in turn will put off scalpers.
Besides, there are only so many that can be produced ready for launch, and with this much anticipation most reviewers were forewarning of zero stocks as scalpers always find ways to buy up most of the cards.
They themselves mention 10 million geforce users and while no one expects them all to buy it they should have an idea from past sales of how many will likely be needed on release…. so instead of focusing on being ‘first out of the door’ delay the launch until you have enough to fulfil a ‘reasonable’ number. There was no reason for them to release with so little stock when there was basically no competition…
Underestimated demand or were the background chatters about terrible Samsung 8nm yields the cause?
(fully expecting the yields to improve dramatically)
Lol the confidence and audacity to blame too much demand. And Zotac saying they have too many orders and they won't be fulfilled for quite a long time… Usually don't companies in this situation apologise for lack of stock instead of bragging? I don't doubt there was huge demand but OTT marketing spin has gone off the rails with this launch.
Zhaoman
Lol the confidence and audacity to blame too much demand. And Zotac saying they have too many orders and they won't be fulfilled for quite a long time… Usually don't companies in this situation apologise for lack of stock instead of bragging? I don't doubt there was huge demand but OTT marketing spin has gone off the rails with this launch.
That's exactly what it is, marketing spin, just like the claims made about the cards capability.
They will want to sell many before AMD launch, so they must have issues with supply / manufacture, although they will deny this.
They’re sorry, but does that mean the problem will be any better for the 3070 launch next month? I can’t help but feel it will be even worse, cheaper cards have a wider market appeal after all!
Notice how Nvidia have avoided the question about more Founders Edition cards becoming available and to use their store to explore other options from AIBs and retailers who have no stock and are inflating prices. Its a bit like the police shutting the highway and directing you down a dead end knowing full well it wont help but they can go back to their tea & biscuits
I'm sort of torn on this, given we're in the middle of a pandemic and fully expecting a recession of the levels of the great depression (never mind the impact of Brexit on the UK), should Nvidia, Sony with their PS5 and MS with the new Xbox, necessarily expect massive demand? It appears the answer is yes and I'm massively out of step with the popular opinion that we should be battening down the hatches for the worst economic downturn in living memory, with millions out of work, mass personal default on mortgages, loans, car finance etc.
I mean don't get me wrong, I want my new shinies but that's not what's keeping me awake at night at the moment :/
daddacool
I'm sort of torn on this, given we're in the middle of a pandemic and fully expecting a recession of the levels of the great depression (never mind the impact of Brexit on the UK), should Nvidia, Sony with their PS5 and MS with the new Xbox, necessarily expect massive demand? It appears the answer is yes and I'm massively out of step with the popular opinion that we should be battening down the hatches for the worst economic downturn in living memory, with millions out of work, mass personal default on mortgages, loans, car finance etc.
I mean don't get me wrong, I want my new shinies but that's not what's keeping me awake at night at the moment :/
To be fair I've actually managed to save more than I had originally intended over the same period due to the lockdown…..but then I've been doing what we ‘should’ be doing and only going out (with a mask for good measure) for necessities and not going down the pub etc.
blokeinkent
What a crock of cack! Underestimated demand….. that just makes worse the level of how stupid they think their consumers are if they expect us to believe that.
Stupid enough to shell out the asking price for a 2080Ti, perhaps…. but since many people did, I guess they're not actually wrong, eh?
LSG501
have better systems in place to prevent it, there's always going to be scalpers but if there is enough supply they're can't make a huge profit etc, which in turn will put off scalpers.Better systems, yes…. Always better systems, and always people will find ways around it. Next bright idea?
'Enough supply' would mean a ridiculous volume of stock, if you wanted to counter the scalpers, as they'd just buy as much as they could, safe in the knowledge that the more they buy the more profit they can make.
LSG501
They themselves mention 10 million geforce users and while no one expects them all to buy it they should have an idea from past sales of how many will likely be needed on release…. As I understand it, every card of the past few gens has release has sold out on release, anyway. A quick search shows complaints about the 980 and 1080 being sold out on release thanks to so many scalpers (and crypto miners), too. That's another reason why people were so easily able to predict a sell-out this time.
Supposedly Nvidia did base their current estimates on how past gens sold, though, meaning this latest demand surpassed even previous stats.
I also recall one of the companies in the last few years (AMD, I think) trying to build so much stock that every anticipated order could be fulfilled… and then being left with a ton of unwanted cards!
LSG501
To be fair I've actually managed to save more than I had originally intended over the same period due to the lockdown…..but then I've been doing what we ‘should’ be doing and only going out (with a mask for good measure) for necessities and not going down the pub etc.
yeah, we've managed to put my wife's salary away (although she's on about half my take home due to career break for 3 kids), and the lack of gym membership, clubs, activities, holidays etc has enabled us to do that but at the same time I know a lot of highly qualified people who've been made redundant. One marketing exec (actual senior member of staff, not marketing nonclementure too!) I know through work is now on a fixed term contract working in a job centre. I know a couple of directors from big 4 audit firms who are still picking about for work 6 months on. Unlike most of them, we've still got a mortgage and any redundancy here will cover about 2 months of bills…
Ttaskmaster
Better systems, yes…. Always better systems, and always people will find ways around it. Next bright idea?
'Enough supply' would mean a ridiculous volume of stock, if you wanted to counter the scalpers, as they'd just buy as much as they could, safe in the knowledge that the more they buy the more profit they can make.
I also recall one of the companies in the last few years (AMD, I think) trying to build so much stock that every anticipated order could be fulfilled… and then being left with a ton of unwanted cards!
Yes the system being used here was at fault… just in time manufacturing and ‘high demand’ is partly to blame, but the purchasing system on site and lack of sufficient stock is also a contributing factor to the issues they're now apologising for…
And I never said having excessive amounts to the point where they have too many… I said having a ‘reasonable’ amount, which also doesn't mean filling every order, but at the same time they have past sales numbers to work from to give them a realistic estimate of sales numbers in the first ‘day’….
It's quite clear that nvidia (and partners) didn't have anywhere near enough and anyone in business with common sense should have known that a ‘lower price’ would have encouraged a higher number of buyers, let alone the performance metrics they were saying.
It is peoples own fault, shortage in supply or not.
The big problem is the “ I want it NOW” attitude, this make a thing exclusive, and exclusive is what jack up price.
If people was just “ Cool i will get one when i can” that would kill off scalpers right there.
When big Navi launch it is going to be exactly the same, cuz people ( that include myself too ) are stupid.
Dont get me wrong i am not saying this to cover Nvidias ass, it is pretty much the norm that when a company go big, they go evil and stupid too and will just throw their weight around like some ill mannered obese child.
BTW the same go for countries, America was too big for its britches for a long time, China are the same now, Russia want to be that way too, and i dont know what the hell EU is doing.
Personally i would rathe wait 6 months getting my GFX card, than i would pay 60 dollars over the top so some creep can make a dime of me too, there are already enough that make a dime on me.
The warnings were there from a month before though, many good leaks suggesting that stocks would be extremely low. I see no mention of 3090's though I'm still hearing that there will only ever be around 10k made due to yield and power issues
The obvious solution for most people, is to just leave the scalpers and the idiots with far more money than sense, to do their thing. Then think about actually buying, when it's all calmed down and retailers have dropped the early adopter premium. For eff's sake, don't buy from the scalpers, however desperate you are to get a new GPU.
I don't want to upgrade before same time next year, maybe even at when we get DDR5 who knows.
And they are not sorry, now they can add 20XX price tags to them…
LSG501
Yes the system being used here was at fault… just in time manufacturing and ‘high demand’ is partly to blame, but the purchasing system on site and lack of sufficient stock is also a contributing factor to the issues they're now apologising for…
Nvidia are only ‘apologising’ because it's expected of the business… same reason we apologise for the (supposed) inconvenience
we cause
you, by coming to fix it when
you break
our asset.
But yes, you're absolutely right Nvidia's fault all the way, Horrendous systems, utterly useless. How
dare they show up and not bring enough for everybody…. :rolleyes:
I vote that we utterly boycott these clueless morons and put them out of business. That'll teach them, the rotters!!
While we're at it, let's put Asus, Gigabyte, EVGA, MSI and all the others out of business too, since they can't keep up with demand, either, eh….
LSG501
And I never said having excessive amounts to the point where they have too many… I said having a ‘reasonable’ amount, which also doesn't mean filling every order, but at the same time they have past sales numbers to work from to give them a realistic estimate of sales numbers in the first ‘day’….
As I mentioned, they already did that and STILL they sold out. Next stunning revelation?
They knew they were going to sell out.
Everyone else knew they were going to sell out.
The only people who seem surprised by this are the ones who tried buying on day one and lost out.
LSG501
It's quite clear that nvidia (and partners) didn't have anywhere near enough and anyone in business with common sense should have known that a ‘lower price’ would have encouraged a higher number of buyers, let alone the performance metrics they were saying.
If it were that simple,
you'd be running their company.
Standard marketing - restrict stocks at launch,to make it look like they are selling out,so it builds hype so more people pre-order to “not miss out”. This way Nvidia and AIB partners get a nice interest free loan for future production,as most retailers will take payment for pre-orders.
Considering most GPU generations last for between 12~24 months,and most GPU sales happen throughout the rest of its lifespan,I don't see the point of panic buying right now and paying even more money. Sure if your system is on the edge of imploding,but otherwise I not sure why waiting a few more weeks or a bit longer is such a big deal when there will be more stock available. Nvidia has SKUs its holding back,and AMD hasn't shown its hand either.
Its like all those people who line up to buy iPhones,etc to say “I am FIRST!”.
They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.
If they hold back the release to wait for inventory to stockpile then people will accuse them of not releasing when they could have. If they release and demand strips out stock they get accused of not holding back. If they increase the price to reduce demand they get accused of price-gouging. If they decrease the price to make people happy then demand increases and they get accused of not having enough stock.
Given the lack of a competitor, it just doesn't matter really. The 3080 release has not suddenly made your current GPU any slower. What Nvidia have to do is make sure stock is plentiful in time to compete when AMD do release (and they've had longer between releases than AMD so that should be possible).
kalniel
They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.
If they hold back the release to wait for inventory to stockpile then people will accuse them of not releasing when they could have. If they release and demand strips out stock they get accused of not holding back. If they increase the price to reduce demand they get accused of price-gouging. If they decrease the price to make people happy then demand increases and they get accused of not having enough stock.
Given the lack of a competitor, it just doesn't matter really. The 3080 release has not suddenly made your current GPU any slower. What Nvidia have to do is make sure stock is plentiful in time to compete when AMD do release (and they've had longer between releases than AMD so that should be possible).
Also TBF,with the fact so many people have spent so much more time at home,due to recent events,not sure why there is such a rush to HAVE to buy a GPU right at this very second. Is waiting a few weeks,maybe a month or so going to change much?? Cyberpunk 2077 is still nearly 2 months away too.
Its still really nice outside,so I would think being off the PC would be a respite,and its all kind of a lax period of big game releases(apart from MS Flight Simulator). Then if we looked at Turing,some of the earlier production RTX2080TI cards had QA/QC problems IIRC.
The cynic in me thinks they deliberately underestimated numbers so demand would inflate the price, then when users get used having to buy a £700 card for £900 they make that the new base price.
As for anti-scalping measures, surely simply requiring a mobile number as part of the order process, so a one time code can be texted and inserted in the checkout page would have killed bots, that would need a lot of mobile numbers to try and auto mate that.
It's not the fact that demand is high and they can't keep up. That's completely fine if you are honest about it. It's just the way they've gone about this and their previous misleading pricing and marketing practices, you can't blame people for rolling their eyes at Nvidia.
But we can't hope AMD's supply will be any better because we know already the consoles will be taking up a lot of silicon and rumours are that yields are not as high as hoped. So stocks might be poor from both camps for a while yet until 2021. Still, ‘apologizing’ (bragging) about high demand is a bad look in my eyes. Just makes you want more that AMD will turn up with a 80CU Big Navi with 50% IPC improvement and beat the 3090 to shut Nvidia up for a while and bring some real competition again.
Zhaoman
and rumours are that yields are not as high as hoped
Weird thing about rumours, I heard quite the opposite! Yields are really good!
Ttaskmaster
Nvidia are only ‘apologising’ because it's expected of the business… same reason we apologise for the (supposed) inconvenience we cause you, by coming to fix it when you break our asset.
But yes, you're absolutely right Nvidia's fault all the way, Horrendous systems, utterly useless. How dare they show up and not bring enough for everybody…. :rolleyes:
I vote that we utterly boycott these clueless morons and put them out of business. That'll teach them, the rotters!!
While we're at it, let's put Asus, Gigabyte, EVGA, MSI and all the others out of business too, since they can't keep up with demand, either, eh…..
Again I never said everybody should get them but it's clear they never had anywhere near enough to cater for even a large portion of the demand for founders let alone their partners (can't really blame partners for not having stock if nvidia doesn't even have enough)…. and as I said at the beginning, no numbers are being given, which really does scream of it being a case of little more than a paper launch with a handful of cards to say ‘first’.
How would it have hurt them to have waited another week or two to get another ‘order’ of cards to sell… having said that there's nothing in their q&a about when more stock of the founders might even be available….
LSG501
How would it have hurt them to have waited another week or two to get another ‘order’ of cards to sell…
There's nothing to suggest they're only short of demand by a week or two so it probably wouldn't make any difference. But let's check in a week or two and if demand is suddenly satisfied I'll doff my hat to you :)
Hah! Those guys above don't need to inflate the price… eBay will do that FOR them.
I've been looking for a reasonably prices 2060 Super or 2070, but the AMOUNT of auctions with bids from 0 feedback people is just staggering. The prices ARE being artificially inflated. By who? I wouldn't like to say.
It's either that, or a LOT of 0 feedback accounts love to bid on graphics cards.
We've been here before many, MANY times. It keeps you in the press. Apple loves this stuff.
“Oh no, we have no stock as we're selling so much and people want our products!”
See through it.
kalniel
Weird thing about rumours, I heard quite the opposite! Yields are really good!
Yeah you have to take all of them with a decent slab of salt. The yields from TSMC are known to be good but perhaps not as high as the most optimistic projections hoped. With silence from AMD, it's all we have to go on and we can filter through them as we please. If I was smart I should probably just spend some quality time in a cave and check back in 2021.
Ttaskmaster
While we're at it, let's put Asus, Gigabyte, EVGA, MSI and all the others out of business too, since they can't keep up with demand, either, eh….
I can't recall where I read it (otherwise I'd add in a link), but were the AIBs artificially limited in production due to lack of specific parts?
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Nvidia has SKUs its holding back,and AMD hasn't shown its hand either.
The RTX 3080 20G, plus anything else to fill out the product stack will no doubt be announced when AMD starts showing its hand, as you said, no point in rushing right now.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Cyberpunk 2077 is still nearly 2 months away too.
Indeed, it'll be interesting to see how both camps perform in this game prior to deciding which camp to sit in.
LSG501
really does scream of it being a case of little more than a paper launch with a handful of cards to say ‘first’.
I think paper launches are possibly the worst thing any company can do, it definitely gives AMD time to fine tune their processes so that they don't fall down the same rabbit hole. There definitely needs to be some form of OTP sent to either mobiles or email address to avoid scalpers, with specific limits on units sold to each number / email / home address. It wouldn't eliminate it, but it would certainly limit it to some extent, at least it would potentially allow a human to buy something at launch (maybe…), either that or just allow pre-orders with full payment in advance, you'll benefit from knowing how many to manufacture to fulfil orders.
Had Nvidia ever pushed a marketing campaign as hard as they did for the 3080 launch, the whole “21 days of gaming” they had going on Twitter etc?
Hard to believe they didn't expect there to be so much demand after building the hype train for so long.
“Nvidia sorry for underestimating GeForce RTX 3080 demand”
Pleaaaaseeee nvidia do you really think your customers are idiots….I could see this cheap business / marketing move from miles.
I almost believed that the price for new cards is acceptable. Too soon, even without bitcoin they found a way how to earn extra money.
Nvidia unfortunately, starts to resemble Microsoft in these cheap marketing tactics. Lies lies lies everywhere.
judge_dredd73
As for anti-scalping measures, surely simply requiring a mobile number as part of the order process, so a one time code can be texted and inserted in the checkout page would have killed bots, that would need a lot of mobile numbers to try and auto mate that.
If I'm scalping 2000 cards and making, say… £800 per GPU - I can certainly afford to drop a fiver on a PAYG SIM from Tesco and drop it into a cheap phone off eBay for each one.
I expect there are plenty of ways to do this virtually/digitally en masse for much less money, too, but I'm not savvy to that side of tech.
LSG501
Again I never said everybody should get themYou'd still need to fulfil the vast majority of orders in order to make the scalp market useless, though.
LSG501
but it's clear they never had anywhere near enough to cater for even a large portion of the demand for founders let alone their partners
It was also clear this would be the case months before as well. Everybody was saying so. Why are you so upset about it?
I assume you get angry at the weatherman when it rains, despite the Met Office saying it was gonna rain?
LSG501
and as I said at the beginning, no numbers are being given, which really does scream of it being a case of little more than a paper launch with a handful of cards to say ‘first’.
1. Being first is a ‘thing’ in marketing. Look through HEXUS news/reviews and count how many products claim to be "the world's first ".
2 Has any GPU maker ever specified how many cards they've got made up ready for release? I would be quite surprised if they've ever done that, so challenge the relevance of having numbers disclosed.
LSG501
How would it have hurt them to have waited another week or two to get another ‘order’ of cards to sell… having said that there's nothing in their q&a about when more stock of the founders might even be available….
People would have complained about every single one of the 336 hours that passed without cards being released, and again Nvidia's reputation would suffer. Already people have mentiond paper releases and doing this would look even more like such things. By the end of the first week, you'd have articles claiming Nvidia would never be delivering these cards. I presume such rumours could even affect share prices, as they certainly do with ours.
As for specifying stock dates, that is similarly fraught with problems.
One of my favourite Mfrs always says 30-60 days for stock because, despite knowing it's likely to be 5 days at the most, unexpected problems can occur that delay manufacturing and so the err on the extreme side of caution.
I commented on this thread on the FB page, apparently I'm a tinfoil hat wearing idiot lol
Iota
I think paper launches are possibly the worst thing any company can do, it definitely gives AMD time to fine tune their processes so that they don't fall down the same rabbit hole. There definitely needs to be some form of OTP sent to either mobiles or email address to avoid scalpers, with specific limits on units sold to each number / email / home address. It wouldn't eliminate it, but it would certainly limit it to some extent, at least it would potentially allow a human to buy something at launch (maybe…), either that or just allow pre-orders with full payment in advance, you'll benefit from knowing how many to manufacture to fulfil orders.
Things can certainly be done to help.
To take my daughter to a Twenty One Pilots concert I had to join the official fan club and get a code. It was still a bit fraught, but better than the BTS fiasco which had no scalp protections at all so we didn't go.
But I suspect there is just nothing in it for Nvidia.
Orcworm
Had Nvidia ever pushed a marketing campaign as hard as they did for the 3080 launch, the whole “21 days of gaming” they had going on Twitter etc?
Hard to believe they didn't expect there to be so much demand after building the hype train for so long.
Pretty well every Nvidia launch is like this.
kalniel
AIB partners pushing things too hard? Glory runs for review cards then nerf down to stable speeds post launch? :p
:handbag:
Need a popcorn smiley really.
It sounds like a case of Fermi!