So no new PC this year.. somewhere next year around same time as now when it all has matured a bit.

QuorTek
So no new PC this year.. somewhere next year around same time as now when it all has matured a bit.

This time next year? Not going by previous historic new memory standards adoption rates.
New hardware in 2021, some servers switching towards the end of the year. Consumer hardware in 2022 or 2023.
DDR4's adoption rate was way slower.
DDR4 was finalised in 2012. The first Skylake CPUs are were mostly DDR3 and only later Skylake architecture CPUs (the so-called Kaby Lake architecture) started using mostly DDR4 except for laptops in 2016.

I have only just upgraded to DDR4. It'll be at least 3 or 4 years before I consider DDR5.

philehidiot
I have only just upgraded to DDR4. It'll be at least 3 or 4 years before I consider DDR5.

That's good, I doubt it'll be available by the time you consider it :p

philehidiot
It'll be at least 3 or 4 years before I consider DDR5.

It'll be quite a few years before I consider any type of upgrade, if my Sandy Bridge system is any form of metric for platform longevity, by the time software catches up it'll be at least 5 years before I start considering it.

Quote from the article: “Offer a max standard data rate of 6.4Gbps - 50 per cent faster than the official 3.2Gbps max speed of DDR4.”

Erm……6.4 Gbps is 100% faster than 3.2 Gbps.
Just because 3.2 Gbps is 50% slower than 6.4 does not make the reverse true!

kompukare

QuorTek
So no new PC this year.. somewhere next year around same time as now when it all has matured a bit.

This time next year? Not going by previous historic new memory standards adoption rates.
New hardware in 2021, some servers switching towards the end of the year. Consumer hardware in 2022 or 2023.
DDR4's adoption rate was way slower.
DDR4 was finalised in 2012. The first Skylake CPUs are were mostly DDR3 and only later Skylake architecture CPUs (the so-called Kaby Lake architecture) started using mostly DDR4 except for laptops in 2016.

I was originally thinking about a big upgrade this year, then changed my mind to next year when DDR5 and the new platform is released, but I'm back to thinking this year again… as you say, DDR5 launch unlikely to happen next year for consumers, and I'm sure the new memory and mobo's will be expensive, not to mention new adopter's teething issues. Zen4 maybe an end of the line platform, but it should provide many years of solid performance.

Stu C;966

kompukare

QuorTek
So no new PC this year.. somewhere next year around same time as now when it all has matured a bit.

This time next year? Not going by previous historic new memory standards adoption rates.
New hardware in 2021, some servers switching towards the end of the year. Consumer hardware in 2022 or 2023.
DDR4's adoption rate was way slower.
DDR4 was finalised in 2012. The first Skylake CPUs are were mostly DDR3 and only later Skylake architecture CPUs (the so-called Kaby Lake architecture) started using mostly DDR4 except for laptops in 2016.

I was originally thinking about a big upgrade this year, then changed my mind to next year when DDR5 and the new platform is released, but I'm back to thinking this year again… as you say, DDR5 launch unlikely to happen next year for consumers, and I'm sure the new memory and mobo's will be expensive, not to mention new adopter's teething issues. Zen4 maybe an end of the line platform, but it should provide many years of solid performance.

Got AMD and Intel at each others throat… wait and see… who can adapt this new faboulous power first and fastests to be the most competetative…… remember what you say is when it was basically only Intel at it all.

QuorTek
Got AMD and Intel at each others throat… wait and see… who can adapt this new faboulous power first and fastests to be the most competetative…… remember what you say is when it was basically only Intel at it all.

But neither Intel or AMD make memory chips.

And those who do (44% Samsung, 29% Hynix, 20% Micron) operate on often razor thin margins unlike logic silicon vendors.

Unsure who much retooling will be required for DDR5 but wasn't it that usually they don't retool but rather the new fabs at smaller nodes will be designed to DDR5 while the old ones continue with their current output.

Either way, I'm sure the top vendors will be happy to get higher prices for DDR5 if the demand is there. Unless one of the Koreans tries to bury Micron (who by all accounts are significantly less efficient), but why risk the ire of Trumpster?

When AMD or Intel adopt DDR5 is not that relevant to those calculation except to drive demand which if it outstrips supply will just mean those industries less dependent on price will adopt it first. Like for example servers. Which is happened at the previous switch and probably the switch before that.

Finally.

kompukare
When AMD or Intel adopt DDR5 is not that relevant to those calculation except to drive demand which if it outstrips supply will just mean those industries less dependent on price will adopt it first. Like for example servers. Which is happened at the previous switch and probably the switch before that.

Traditionally at the point of crossover AMD and Intel have made parts with dual standard ram controllers which can take either memory type. So AMD could make some AM4 parts re-released on AM5 giving a performance boost.

The split channel per dimm will be useful for APUs and to help feed the multiple threads on modern PCs. It also makes it rather more like GDDR memory, so no doubt we will see low end graphics cards adopting it given we saw DDR3 gpus where the hit was pretty bad.

AMD could just swap out the IO die, saving some silicon area

Xlucine
AMD could just swap out the IO die, saving some silicon area

That's an interesting thought, given how DDR5 seems to have slipped a bit. Perhaps just needing a new IO die for AM5 was part of the reasoning for the 3000 series, though seeing how fast the new APUs are I wonder if 4000 series will be dropping chiplet and going back to fully integrated monolithic dies.

Anxious to build September yet DDR5, PCIe5, USB4 & 5nm suggest 2021 may be prudent. Prob throw Ampere/Sienna Cichlid in my antique Haswell till then.

rupert3k
Anxious to build September yet DDR5, PCIe5, USB4 & 5nm suggest 2023 may be prudent. Prob throw Ampere/Sienna Cichlid in my antique Haswell till then.

There fixed that for you!

Certainly for affordable DDR5 - and for that matter DDR5 which actually offers a tangible improvement on current top-of-the-range DDR4.

PCIe 5.0 and USB 4.0 might be possible but PCIe 4.0 is currently mostly under-utilised (headline burst rates for NVMe drives are about as useful headline burst rates for SATA3, SATA2, SATA1, PATA133, and so on - that is not very).

5nm should happen in 2021, but not for everything as the prices of designs, masks etc. are even worse than 7nm. From the performance of the coming Zen2 APUs it is clear that a monolithic design has many advantages, and while AMD's increasing volume means it would make sense for them to return to monolithic for mainstream, the increased costs at 5nm make that very unlikely.

at the start, for first year it will be behind price wall anyway

honesty, everyone is much to forgiving when it comes to JEDEC. DDR5 was suppose to be in the market 3 years ago. And since most people give them a pass ALL the time, for decades, those who do not put pressure on them to SPEED things up, you are slowing the industry down from progress. It's that way in every aspect of this industry, and should not be that way in this century. There is no valid reason why so many delays should occur, hire new engineers. Pick up the pace with releases already, and keep pace with market demand.

six_tymes
honesty, everyone is much to forgiving when it comes to JEDEC. DDR5 was suppose to be in the market 3 years ago. And since most people give them a pass ALL the time, for decades, those who do not put pressure on them to SPEED things up, you are slowing the industry down from progress. It's that way in every aspect of this industry, and should not be that way in this century. There is no valid reason why so many delays should occur, hire new engineers. Pick up the pace with releases already, and keep pace with market demand.

Yeah that's the last time I buy something from JEDEC. Oh, wait.

kompukare
There fixed that for you!

Certainly for affordable DDR5 - and for that matter DDR5 which actually offers a tangible improvement on current top-of-the-range DDR4.

PCIe 5.0 and USB 4.0 might be possible but PCIe 4.0 is currently mostly under-utilised (headline burst rates for NVMe drives are about as useful headline burst rates for SATA3, SATA2, SATA1, PATA133, and so on - that is not very).

5nm should happen in 2021, but not for everything as the prices of designs, masks etc. are even worse than 7nm. From the performance of the coming Zen2 APUs it is clear that a monolithic design has many advantages, and while AMD's increasing volume means it would make sense for them to return to monolithic for mainstream, the increased costs at 5nm make that very unlikely.

Monolithic for mainstream would take away a good use for lower binned server chiplets, and it'd mean either a two die launch if they stick to the CPU-APU-CPU cycle or having the HEDT & server chips a whole CPU generation ahead of desktop

so elsewhere this came up again as mentioned by Hexus too: “DDR5 will operate at 1.1V, down from 1.2V for DDR4. DDR5 will also employ an on-DIMM voltage regulator. This means that motherboards supporting DDR5 won’t need to regulate DIMM voltage. This likely has implications for the cost/complexity of the DIMMs.”

Not only cost implications but if not done well could this affect overclocking, or even just the ability to set and lock your system to a given performance under or over? Will the user get any control over the settings?
If you can't set and fix a voltage to prevent it getting frazzled when something automatically wants to take it too high - eg mobo auto overclocking which I've never found to work in a way I'd consider safe,
Ditto for stupid XMP profiles that demand a voltage by default that I've often found to be unnecessary and that standard voltages usually work just fine (set manually and locked).
Will this change limit ability to undervolt for cooler running?
Then there are the extreme OC crew who will want to sail these things far outside of their intended waters. Is this impeded by this? If the voltage is set on-RAM then presumably RAM manufacturers will err on the side of caution out of warranty fears and put in place hard caps users simply can't bypass?

There needs to be a manual control/override for this IMO. Cost issues aside I can see some pitfalls with this. I don't like the thought of trying to get a stable OC where the RAM is continually adjusting its own voltage.