In the meantime in the OEM world and business purchase, Intel is still outselling AMD. And those numbers are really big. It is hard to change the habitude.

darcotech
In the meantime in the OEM world and business purchase, Intel is still outselling AMD. And those numbers are really big. It is hard to change the habitude.

Perhaps so, but them companies that buys OEM many many of them got ECO stuff in view too and a less efficient 14nm chip vs a 7nm is gonna be a difference as many companies want to marketing their ways being as green as possible to give a better approach to the customers.

It seems so long ago when Kaby Lake-G was an interesting option. Back then, there was still a reason to choose Intel CPUs, particularly on laptops. Kaby Lake-G offered the best CPU paired with the best integrated graphics.

Now, I'd just as soon take a Ryzen 4000 mobile CPU, even if there were Coffee Lake/Comet Lake options with Radeon graphics.

Do Intel really care about Desktop market share, so long as they have their server side cash cow income rolling in from company IT managers…

It's almost as if Intel didn't notice what happened to IBM.

ohmaheid
It's almost as if Intel didn't notice what happened to IBM.

Who?

But seriously, we have been here before with the Athlon64 and P4. The P4 was a terrible chip but OEM sales kept Intel afloat. I think IBM was the Yahoo! or AOL of early PCs. I don't think competition on the same level is going to win here. I think Intel and AMD are going to trade blows and then someone will come along with a new business model and novel ideas, leaving them suddenly wondering what happened. We have seen Intel is slow to adapt to competitors (when really, given their position they should have had a few ready to go products in the bag) but when something else comes along, they'll be stuck as if in concrete, too rigid to do anything but shatter when the blow hits.

I think that blow may well come from a fist attached to an ARM.

darcotech
In the meantime in the OEM world and business purchase, Intel is still outselling AMD. And those numbers are really big. It is hard to change the habitude.

Most of the AMD CPU range until recently lacked an IGP,so was of limited use outside desktops. The Zen+ APUs were solid,but generally the Intel APUs were better overall in terms of CPU performance,and had more cores. Only with Renoir has AMD managed to have a truly competitive range,especially for laptops and many prebuilt desktops which don't need an IGP.

philehidiot
But seriously, we have been here before with the Athlon64 and P4.

Don't think that was *quite* the same. The P4 was an utter dog of a chip, and Intel was lucky (not clever, but you take what you can eh?) to have the Pentium Mobile in the wings ready to be turned into Core 2 so OEMs just had to wait. This time I don't see any Intel saviour product turning up to save the day. Getting 7nm out would help, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

In the meantime, I can now buy an Alienware PC from Dell with a 3900 cpu in it. Shame I'm trying to buy a machine with a 3950X, but it's a start.

DanceswithUnix
Don't think that was *quite* the same. The P4 was an utter dog of a chip, and Intel was lucky (not clever, but you take what you can eh?) to have the Pentium Mobile in the wings ready to be turned into Core 2 so OEMs just had to wait. This time I don't see any Intel saviour product turning up to save the day. Getting 7nm out would help, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

In the meantime, I can now buy an Alienware PC from Dell with a 3900 cpu in it. Shame I'm trying to buy a machine with a 3950X, but it's a start.

TBF,the main issue Intel has is not being able to get higher core count 10NM desktop and laptop CPUs out,and having to stick with the old node does not help. However,Ice Lake does appear to have slightly higher IPC than Zen2,and Skylake isn't that slow especially when you consider how old a uarch it is by now.

CAT-THE-FIFTH
Skylake isn't that slow especially when you consider how old a uarch it is by now.

This is a good point - I upgraded from a 6700k (skylake) to the 9900k last year, and whilst there was a HUGE jump in multi core performance (enough that I can use x264 encoding in OBS whilst streaming with no impact on my FPS), anything single core dependent barely saw any improvement. I was running that 6700k at 4.9ghz so that does make a difference, but its interesting to me in two ways. The fact that it can still keep pace 4 years after release, and the fact that the 9900k didn't move things forward much in single core performance (Which is what matters for 90% or more of users).

That is why I was able to sell it second hand for £180…which to me, is a bit mad after 4 years.

Anyway, the sales figures are mildly interesting for that etailer but i'm not sure it tells us much more than the German PC builders who shop at mindfactory like to build with the best value chips on the market - which is currently AMD. Can't really sensibly extrapolate this out to the whole market.

Spud1
This is a good point - I upgraded from a 6700k (skylake) to the 9900k last year, and whilst there was a HUGE jump in multi core performance (enough that I can use x264 encoding in OBS whilst streaming with no impact on my FPS), anything single core dependent barely saw any improvement. I was running that 6700k at 4.9ghz so that does make a difference, but its interesting to me in two ways. The fact that it can still keep pace 4 years after release, and the fact that the 9900k didn't move things forward much in single core performance (Which is what matters for 90% or more of users).

That is why I was able to sell it second hand for £180…which to me, is a bit mad after 4 years.

Anyway, the sales figures are mildly interesting for that etailer but i'm not sure it tells us much more than the German PC builders who shop at mindfactory like to build with the best value chips on the market - which is currently AMD. Can't really sensibly extrapolate this out to the whole market.

It's the end of Intel…. ;)

Bagpuss
Do Intel really care about Desktop market share, so long as they have their server side cash cow income rolling in from company IT managers…

So we have a sister agency which we operate and helps support all of what is going on - in the last 18 months all of our creative and development folks have moved from Xeon/Core to Ryzen and Threadripper.

We are about to deploy a huge new infrastructure - moving for the first time in our 20 year history from being on Xeon based solutions in the DC to 100% AMD (bar the Intel Networking) - putting in EPYC servers.

Change is coming - it's about pure performance.

…. and yes we are a small company in the scheme of things but the performance and density is frankly incredible.

We will be sharing more soon.

It is a good thing for the market that Intel is being given a push - previously they came back with something great - Core2 - but right now its a very tricky situation for them, it's not the end of Intel but hopefully is a wake up call.

Intel have misfired on process. By the looks of it, nVidia haven't done a lot better either. Both are doing incredible design work to make up for it, but AMD seem to have a large process advantage and when it's paired with good design they're quite rightly taking the lead.

DR
We will be sharing more soon.

Look forward to hearing about it. I've had to build my own machines which in a small company I can do, but finding AMD based kit pre-build has been a trial both workstation and server.

DanceswithUnix
Look forward to hearing about it. I've had to build my own machines which in a small company I can do, but finding AMD based kit pre-build has been a trial both workstation and server.

Has been a trial? You mean difficult to source etc. or to build?

3dcandy
Has been a trial? You mean difficult to source etc. or to build?

Trying to find a pre built machine has been tricky. You can easily get a gaming ryzen machine with glass sides and covered in LEDs to show off the 2070 gpu. Not something suitable for an engineer to run simulations in their office which wants lots of cores, plenty of fast ram and the cheapest GPU that can take three display port monitors.

For servers the range seemed quite limited and high end, and at this point I just wanted some cheap tat for a test environment. So in the end I threw a 3400G on a B450 board and put it in a 2U case.

PC Specialist were pretty much the only game in town for buying the workstations, but their RAM was tripe for AMD use so they struggled to supply 3200MHz DDR4. I hope by now they have found some sane ram. But hats off to them for at least doing an AMD workstation build.

kalniel
Intel have misfired on process. By the looks of it, nVidia haven't done a lot better either. Both are doing incredible design work to make up for it, but AMD seem to have a large process advantage and when it's paired with good design they're quite rightly taking the lead.

It's a different situation with nvidia - after all, they aren't developing any new processes. The 20 series launched ages ago, and at they time they judged (not unreasonably) that they didn't need to shell out for the new fancy process as the usual cheap one was good enough

Xlucine
It's a different situation with nvidia - after all, they aren't developing any new processes. The 20 series launched ages ago, and at they time they judged (not unreasonably) that they didn't need to shell out for the new fancy process as the usual cheap one was good enough

Yeah I didn't mean just about process manufacture but choice as well - I don't know what happened between nVidia and TSMC but missing out on their 7nm was not a great move.

darcotech
In the meantime in the OEM world and business purchase, Intel is still outselling AMD. And those numbers are really big. It is hard to change the habitude.

This 100%. Walk into any best buy and you'll see *most* computers there are still Intel. It's not enthusiast hardware that makes the money, it's what most people buy, which happens to be mainstream “U” SKU laptops. And Intel still has the high ground in that field. The worst mainstream 8th gen laptop i5 Intel has is equal to AMDs r7 3700u, so no wonder they're still holding strong

DontBeKarma
This 100%. Walk into any best buy and you'll see *most* computers there are still Intel. It's not enthusiast hardware that makes the money, it's what most people buy, which happens to be mainstream “U” SKU laptops. And Intel still has the high ground in that field. The worst mainstream 8th gen laptop i5 Intel has is equal to AMDs r7 3700u, so no wonder they're still holding strong

1) You're making stuff up - the ryzen 7 3000U was way faster than 8th gen i5s


2) Intel sucks hard in the U field - ryzen 4000U is as fast as intel 10th gen H series. Anyone buying an intel U series today isn't doing it because of benchmarks