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Posted by Mr_Jon - Fri 11 Oct 2019 11:27
mostly lol @ “urban air mobility market”
Posted by Ttaskmaster - Fri 11 Oct 2019 11:48
LOL at Dyson…. pretty sure I told ya so.

Mr_Jon
mostly lol @ “urban air mobility market”
Plenty of Chairborne keyboard warriors to fit that bill…

Thing is, it'd have to be reliably autonomous and completely anti-hackable, otherwise we'll have people crashing into stuff all over the place. Flying cars are an awesome idea… giving them to the massed morons that inhabit this planet is beyond moronic. Besides, no booger will be able to afford one, let alone manage the licencing and insurance to fly it.
So, I look forward to 2021 when Porsche's own commercially unviable announcement.
Posted by Zak33 - Fri 11 Oct 2019 12:21
my guess is that the Singapore Government, who tempted Dyson over there and away from the Uk…has pulled funding. Just a theory ….
Posted by Mr_Jon - Fri 11 Oct 2019 12:25
Ttaskmaster
LOL at Dyson…. pretty sure I told ya so.


Plenty of Chairborne keyboard warriors to fit that bill…

Thing is, it'd have to be reliably autonomous and completely anti-hackable, otherwise we'll have people crashing into stuff all over the place. Flying cars are an awesome idea… giving them to the massed morons that inhabit this planet is beyond moronic. Besides, no booger will be able to afford one, let alone manage the licencing and insurance to fly it.
So, I look forward to 2021 when Porsche's own commercially unviable announcement.

It's bonkers innit. Dyson say they have a “fantastic electric car” for the mass market, which is so fantastic they don't dare pay to have it manufactured. Meanwhile, Boeing and Porsche decide to completely miss the mass market with something that is aimed at the 0.00001% (and that's an approximation, sports fans), a project that will - pun thoroughly intended - never get off the ground. I'm sure we'd all love to live like the Jetsons, and for that I applaud their endeavour. But idiots.
Posted by philehidiot - Fri 11 Oct 2019 13:16
Zak33
my guess is that the Singapore Government, who tempted Dyson over there and away from the Uk…has pulled funding. Just a theory ….

And that this product can't stand on its own two feet without subsidies.

Dyson probably came up against the same issues as Tesla. They are not a car maker. Teslas keep breaking on the strangest of things (batteries (the standard car battery, not the big posh one although they have recently updated it OTA to reduce capacity by some way), door handles, etc) because they do not have the experience building a car. Nissan is failing in the battery pack where they've weather sealed it but also not cooled it with a radiator, so in hot climates, it fails prematurely (and they refuse to replace it). Nissan, VW, etc do and so their starting point is the electric stuff whilst the rest of the car is already pretty much sorted. Tesla keep failing on the parts that other car companies have been doing for 100 years.

Dyson is going to have the same problem. Yes they've got a bit of a head start in the electric drive part but they've got an ENTIRE car to design with no experience as a company in this area. I wouldn't buy it either when the big names are starting to release electric cars.

Musk doesn't have this problem because he attracts investment like flies round…. uh… yeh. He's called Electric Jesus for a reason and keeps getting investment despite calling people paedos, smoking pot, giving his (chef) brother a massive company salary ($6.8 million) for sitting on the board, hiring a criminal PI to investigate “paedo guy” to dig up the non-existant paedo dirt, beta testing new, unreliable stuff which causes crashes on the public (smart summon), Tesla trucks (supposed to be out by now but they have only released a die-cast model) failure……
Posted by Rejuvination - Fri 11 Oct 2019 13:37
So i guess someone is suppressing the electric cars market (because mah oil) so they dont lose money, who the fuk cares about the planet when traveling to mars is so close by…
Posted by 3dcandy - Fri 11 Oct 2019 14:25
More like all the car people won't invest in a startup when they can see huge profits for themselves rather than for them and a n other
Posted by Gentle Viking - Fri 11 Oct 2019 15:33
It is batter to suck, than to burn ( money ) away :-)
Posted by Tabbykatze - Fri 11 Oct 2019 16:56
Tbh Phil, design issues like weird failing door handles versus failing majorly functional car parts? I know which company I'm going for and it begins with Tesla.
Posted by philehidiot - Fri 11 Oct 2019 18:26
Tabbykatze
Tbh Phil, design issues like weird failing door handles versus failing majorly functional car parts? I know which company I'm going for and it begins with Tesla.

The door handles thing was just an example of something an established company can just do whereas Tesla can't. There are loads more examples. I gave you one in the 12V battery failures. What about the ‘ice breaker’ feature which has a lovely hole for a 5 year old to poke a finger into? Yeh, that wasn't good but there was no mitigation for the risk presented because they don't have the automotive R&D experience and they don't take their time.

Honestly, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. They repeatedly come at the bottom of reliability rankings, they are only alive due to investor money, they OTA update your car to make it worse and reduce the range without your consent…. the list goes on. the undercooked R&D is everywhere. Not just minor things. The repeated (often yearly) 12V battery failures due to them trying to charge a standard car battery like a lithium ion pack speaks volumes.

The Smart Summon failure is a recent issue and it's HUGE. You can summon the car to come to you from 60 meters away. For most of us, lazy rubbish, for disabled people potentially incredible. But it crashes into things. Repeatedly. It's undercooked and dangerous yet they released it. That is not minor, especially as people are using it, then it crashes into someone else and they deny fault as they weren't at the wheel. Part of doing something like this is ensuring you work with governments and insurance to get leglisation and procedure in place but they don't. They release undercooked software for a self driving vehicle into the wild with no regulatory framework to support it. They are dangerous cowboys. (EDIT, they admit it's beta but you don't unleash a beta version of self driving cars onto the road, YOU JUST DON'T! Beta testing computer control of 2 tonne+ of metal without a driver at the wheel is not acceptable, however you try and spin it).

Look at the company's financial records and it gets worse. This company will not be around for much longer without constant external investor support. They have a massive backlog and their stock surplus is huge. They can't shift the expensive models as they marketed the cheaper ones. So they have surplus expensive cars sat and can't fulfil orders for cheaper ones. Which will die off when the larger companies get in on the act. Why are the larger companies taking so damn long? They are doing the R&D properly. Toyota are doing the right thing. Hybrids for a long period of time to get service centres used to them, get the supply chain in place, sort out issues without crippling someone's car and being able to research battery degredation without major risk. It takes decades to do this kind of thing properly and Tesla are trying to do it (relatively) overnight.

What I will say is that that they have definitely pushed things forward. They will not last but they will be remembered as a company which drove the sector forwards. My issue is when they die and there are no servers for the car to connect to and no remote fixy people to sort issues over the phone, what happens to the people who have bought these things? Generic parts aren't an option in a Tesla as it verifies everything unless you hack the software.
Posted by aniilv - Sat 12 Oct 2019 01:48
Zak33
my guess is that the Singapore Government, who tempted Dyson over there and away from the Uk…has pulled funding. Just a theory ….
what are you saying? dyson is not pro brexit after all?
Posted by TeePee - Sat 12 Oct 2019 02:30
Even with the huge government subsidies, there are no commercially viable electric cars. Tesla has never sold a car for a profit. We did the mathematics a while ago about just how expensive an electric car is to own, and that's in the UK with insane fuel prices. Imaging trying to compete against 47p/litre petrol in the USA.
Posted by Lordhawkwind - Sat 12 Oct 2019 18:51
TeePee
Even with the huge government subsidies, there are no commercially viable electric cars. Tesla has never sold a car for a profit. We did the mathematics a while ago about just how expensive an electric car is to own, and that's in the UK with insane fuel prices. Imaging trying to compete against 47p/litre petrol in the USA.

Completely agree. EV cars are a joke especially as their is no real definition of “electric car”. My next door neighbor bought a Mitsubishi PHEV and it did 16 miles on all electric. Joke.
Posted by DanceswithUnix - Sun 13 Oct 2019 18:32
Lordhawkwind
Completely agree. EV cars are a joke especially as their is no real definition of “electric car”. My next door neighbor bought a Mitsubishi PHEV and it did 16 miles on all electric. Joke.

That would just about get me to work and back.
Posted by Saracen999 - Sun 13 Oct 2019 20:54
Lordhawkwind
Completely agree. EV cars are a joke especially as their is no real definition of “electric car”. My next door neighbor bought a Mitsubishi PHEV and it did 16 miles on all electric. Joke.
But that's not an electric car. It's a plug-in hybrid, not designed to opetate very long on pure electric. It's designed to offer an electric drive-train, with small batteries msinly supporting maximising fuel efficiency, using the engine to power the drive train, and/or charge batteries with maeasures like regenerative breaking recovering some electrical charge from braking.

But a true EV it ain't, and it's not really fair to judge it as such.

For many of us with serioys concerns about EV rsnge, that kind of hybrid (and similar) might currently be a better bet than pure EV which, it seems to me, either don't have the necessary range, or are too expensive (by far) for the mass market.
Posted by philehidiot - Sun 13 Oct 2019 21:44
Saracen999
But that's not an electric car. It's a plug-in hybrid, not designed to opetate very long on pure electric. It's designed to offer an electric drive-train, with small batteries msinly supporting maximising fuel efficiency, using the engine to power the drive train, and/or charge batteries with maeasures like regenerative breaking recovering some electrical charge from braking.

But a true EV it ain't, and it's not really fair to judge it as such.

For many of us with serioys concerns about EV rsnge, that kind of hybrid (and similar) might currently be a better bet than pure EV which, it seems to me, either don't have the necessary range, or are too expensive (by far) for the mass market.

My dad bought a hybrid like this and I took the piss.

Whilst he does drive very old-man ish (always had, he was once pulled over for driving too slowly) he gets insanely good fuel economy out of it. Longer journeys it's not as good but the stop-start is pretty smooth.

I think these may be the way forward for the time being but the future is electric…. once we get the clean power generation, which is gonna be a while coming.
Posted by Saracen999 - Mon 14 Oct 2019 01:36
philehidiot
My dad bought a hybrid like this and I took the piss.

Whilst he does drive very old-man ish (always had, he was once pulled over for driving too slowly) he gets insanely good fuel economy out of it. Longer journeys it's not as good but the stop-start is pretty smooth.

I think these may be the way forward for the time being but the future is electric…. once we get the clean power generation, which is gonna be a while coming.

I entirely agree that electric is the future ….provided the issues can be solved. And that is probably just a matter of time, but …. how much time?

I think part of the problem is that an ‘ideal’ car is very personal, and circumstance-dependent. What suits my needs may be utterly wrong for you. Someone living in an inner city may need very shirt runs only, while a rural dweller needs a car to get anywhere and do anything. I'm sort-of hybrid - much of the time, doing 25 miles a day would be plenty, but there are periodic occasions when I need 125 miles in a journey, and less frequent but still periodic trips where I need 300+. I need a car capable of all that, without lengthy recharge stops, if you can find an available charger on yoyr journey without going miles out of the way to find it.

And all that needs to be at a price-point more or less comparable to current ICE cars, and then I need reassurance of longevity, performance and price of batteries. I don't just need a car with a decent battery life for two or three years, but for 10, 15 maybe 20 years.

I can get all that in ICE, but electric? Not currently. And until I can, I'm not buying. Wjile EV's are getting better, and cheaper, they're still nowhere near what I need. Or want.
Posted by DanceswithUnix - Mon 14 Oct 2019 04:52
Saracen999
But that's not an electric car. It's a plug-in hybrid, not designed to opetate very long on pure electric.

The plug in bit is key though, I know someone who owns one and they do plug it in at night and they do work within the car's round trip range. So for them a 200 mile range would on a daily basis be wasted up-front battery expense, and the petrol engine is a range extender.

Mild hybrids which can't go far at all on their little 48V battery should be more common. My start/stop car has most of the technology and hence downside of cost and reliability, without the extra battery and power electronics to allow it to provide electric motion which would help cover the lack of torque pulling away with a small 1.4l turbo engine when the turbo hasn't spun up yet.
Posted by Roobubba - Mon 14 Oct 2019 12:19
“Massive Brexit Bellend Turns Out To Have Been Massive Liar”

Colour me very surprised.
Posted by Roobubba - Mon 14 Oct 2019 12:23
Just for clarity, this nonsense about short battery life on EVs is so outdated now as to be utterly risible.

Now, cost of a car with a decent range if you routinely do 200+ mile trips, that is a valid area of concern. It's rapidly getting there, though.
Posted by mobit - Fri 08 Nov 2019 19:32
Not surprised in the least that a vacuum cleaner manufacturer (which is a motor with a fan, and some plastic tubing) fails to produce something as complex as a car.
Posted by AC81 - Sat 09 Nov 2019 11:25
Roobubba
Just for clarity, this nonsense about short battery life on EVs is so outdated now as to be utterly risible.
If you look at the numbers of how batterys loose performance in the cold weather though. Actually, it's still a valid concern. As is thier affordability.

Once again, just like wind farms. All the energy is being put into one technology while other viable alternatives are ignored.
There needs to be more investment and infastructure put into hydrogen powered cars, of which there is already a production model available. But no one can buy them as there's no where to fill them up.