Air. CPUs are more thermally efficient than ever, air coolers air more reliable (less to go wrong,) generally cheaper and a decent one is quieter than water-cooling with fans on the rad + pump noise.
spacein_vader
Air. CPUs are more thermally efficient than ever, air coolers air more reliable (less to go wrong,) generally cheaper and a decent one is quieter than water-cooling with fans on the rad + pump noise.
And theres a more pronounced heat lag in water cooled systems, by this i mean it stays hotter for longer after returning to idle, though this may have changed since i read about it a few years ago.
Air, but then I've never understood the attraction of AIO's.
spacein_vader
Air. CPUs are more thermally efficient than ever, air coolers air more reliable (less to go wrong,) generally cheaper and a decent one is quieter than water-cooling with fans on the rad + pump noise.
Really lol
Air without a doubt, there will never be water inside my PC.
Air coolers don't leak…
Less to go wrong for air cooling and similar results, so that is my preference.
My current build is my first water cooled machine and I'm very happy as its much quieter than my old build.
Honestly, although I do like the simplicity of air I'll likely be going AIO again when I upgrade.
It's not really for the cooling the cpu, although imo it's no worse than one of the huge air coolers, it's more about heat within the case, case air flow and just managing the weight of a huge air cooler. I stick my AIO's at the top of my case so heat is expelled straight out of the case and the rad is mounted to the case so all the heavy cooling parts are securely mounted.
With some of the heavy air coolers I'm more concerned they'll damage the motherboard due to flex etc and for the sake of a few degrees well I'll stick with AIO (actually I'd go fully watercooled if I could be bothered lol)
Namor
Really lol
Which part of it do you doubt?
Over a decade of liquid cooling and never seen a single leak, or heard a single pump, and NONE of the radiator fans can be heard over the rest of the system, ever. Air cooling of high end processors will NEVER be as quiet as a properly setup liquid cooled machine. I can hear everything ELSE in my system, but my CPU cooling is absolutely as close to silent as a barely spinning fan can be, and this is at 5Ghz and full load across all cores on a 7700K, a known heat monster. Near silence. Beat that air coolers. Literally, when the GPU fans turns off, the ONLY sound coming from my tower is a 80mm case fan spinning at such low RPMs that unless your ear is pressed to the tower, you cannot hear it. Silence is golden.
Oh yeah, radiators don't make noise, in response to the ignorant comment above. Crappy quality pumps CAN make noise, but radiators have no moving parts, it's literally a hollow hunk of metal. Pump noise is non-existent on quality pumps, and radiators make no noise. Fans attached to the radiator spin slower than air cooled heatsinks, so those are quieter as well. And unlike aircoolers can actually run much slower the more of them you add. A 360mm radiator with 3 fans WILL be quieter than a dual fan heatsink on a high end processor. And cool as well or better.
For the past 15 years or so i have only used H2O for cooling, some times just the CPU other times also GFX + RAM - N bridge - PWM.
Never had a build leak after build, or spring a leak later down the road.
Mind you a good heat pipe cooler are also fine, but just too easy and i like to be special, and its still a few that build a PC with H2O cooling.
The case i also have to do something about in regard to cooling performance, maybe not a lot but i always have to put my own twist on that too.
I will be sticking with custom watercooling. With my windowsill mounted radiators air cooling is never going to get anywhere near as low as my CPU and GPU temps. I have been watercooling for over 14 years and in that time have only had two leaks. The first was my very first custom loop and my own fault as I screwed a barb in too tightly to a acrylic res and split it. I noticed the leak straight away as I was filling and replaced the res. The second was a O-ring failure on a 4 month old EK waterblock that they tried blaming me for. It was only the occassional drip and I managed to find the correct O ring sizes and replaced them all myself with no thanks to EK. Needless to say I will never touch a EK product again after their abysmal support, or lack of!!
Air. I'll definitely be spending more money on the CPU cooler in my next build, whatever gives the best “bang for the buck” in regards to cooling and not bad for noise either. My current main PC isn't exactly whisper quiet (but it's not like being next to a Spitfire before takeoff) so I'm likely to have a higher tolerance to noise than some folks. Nothing against the idea of water cooling as such, just for me a good quality air cooler would be a simpler solution.
Air , you can't go wrong with noctua
My recent SFF build is virtually silent, because the case came with a 200 mm fan and I don't overclock anything. Thinking about getting a smaller case next time, hopefully years away, but I hope I'll be able to get a big slow fan in that, too.
A few times the Nvidia/Intel switched graphics in my work laptop has got it close to being cooled by the passing air as it sails out the window. Does that count?
Air all the way. Tried water cooling my PC and saw no benefit but had the added risk of potential leaks destroying my kit so went back to air. Running a I7-7700K with a Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 and idles at 30, load at about 60-65 degrees. All good
spacein_vader
Air. CPUs are more thermally efficient than ever, air coolers air more reliable (less to go wrong,) generally cheaper and a decent one is quieter than water-cooling with fans on the rad + pump noise.
9900k & 9900KS
A D5 pump on level 2 is a quieter than a A15, and you can always have an absurd amount of rad space and use like 400rpm fans
I don't trust liquid coolers at all, so I'll be sticking to air. If you have a liquid, you're going to need to keep your eye on it alot, and while problems are very rare, it could only take one little bit to destroy many £££s worth of hardware.
DanceswithUnix
A few times the Nvidia/Intel switched graphics in my work laptop has got it close to being cooled by the passing air as it sails out the window. Does that count?
Mine is cooled by Windows 10 updates. The cooling circuit is as follows:
1) Microsoft forces an update on me.
2) Update breaks something important.
3) Air is moved at high velocity with the shouting and also turns a shade of blue.
4) Convection is caused by rising steam from my ears.
5) Steam condenses forming clouds and rain which falls onto the open system.
6) Water shorts out PC which then dies, becoming exceptionally cold.
7) PC lands on floor outside, window needs replacing. Ventilation is improved.
8) Only here as I can't stand prime numbers.
It is rare my fans ramp up over 1000 RPM, and they top out at 1200 anyway.
700 RPM are the MIN i have set for the fans that can not switch off completely.
So in this current case thats the 2 fans on the radiator ( only CPU have H2O at the moment )
And the 2 fans that make sure there are no stagnant air anywhere on the motherboard.
PSU + one exhaust fan will turn off now and then, and so will the new 5700 XT GFX card.
Plan on having 2 X 200 mm fans ( 2 x 150 CFM ) for the next build, to intake and chill one RAD, but will also have 1 or 2 passive 360 rads before that one that will be “powered” by the over pressure as it leave the case.
will be my first pressurized case build.
Air. I like the idea of playing with liquid but feel it's only needed because you are doing it wrong.
I'm still using a HAF XB case with 2 Noctua AF140 (set 800min / 1000max) case fans cooling the top half (1080Ti FTW3 & 3770k @ 4.5 with a NH-D14) linked to a Recon fan controller. No disco lights either, just cool and quiet, no fuss.
Most likely air.
While in theory I like the idea of liquid-cooling, I don't think I'd be able to trust it not to leak at some point. Even if it was all installed correctly initially, I'd likely be worried about accidentally knocking something and causing a leak during the process of replacing or adding components (graphics card, HDD etc.), or even the process of doing the watercooling maintenance that's required, without noticing until it's too late.
I think I'd still have that worry with an AIO too, so sticking with air seems to be the best option to me.
sticking with water, although when I get round to upgrading I will rebuild my system with hard tubing. Considering building the machine into my desk or on the wall too but we'll see.
Air is fine performance wise, but its nowhere near as much fun - I watercooled for the fun of building my own custom loop, getting the exact look and performance I want. Its near totally silent and keeps my 6700k at 10-12 degrees over ambient on full load, or at ambient temp when under “normal” load.
I don't understand AIOs at all - air performance without the benefit and pleasure of building your own loop - it's an odd product type that personally I don't see a need for. I guess it's a looks thing but good AIOs cost almost as much as the parts for a basic custom loop, so still hard one to make add up!
Air without a doubt. For the small improvement you may get with liquid, having liquid pumping around by expensive circuit boards in probably an enclosed location where leaks may not be immediately apparent seems……a really bad idea to me!
Currently everything is under water but all separate AIOs. One each for the CPU's and one on the gfx card. Would love to get the whole thing under one custom loop but never had the balls to do it.
I have to say the last 3 gfx cards have had AIOs and I defo prefer it as it cools better than the air equivalents and allows for higher overclocks / boost clocks without resorting to voltage bumps.
My old CPUs defo benefit too as they are 130W parts, probably wouldn't go water if I had a modern CPU. The other half has a 1700X under a Noctua NH14 and doesn't get above 40 under full load!
Same as now. Liquid cooking with a custom loop, looks excellent an silent af.
Probably stick with air. It's simple & it just works. From everything I read water looks like a lot of extra expense and fiddling for questionable temperature benefits and a bit less noise. OTOH I think the best way I could make my uccrent PC quieter is to rearrange my stack so that the PC is no longer only ~18" from my left ear!
Was looking around at some Watercooling for current cpu. With all the horror stories of leaking AIO's. I might skip AIO's for big heatsinks.
I wish to go full custom loop for the next build, yet we will see.
I have had a good experience using an AIO so far, so provided it stays that way I will probably go for another in the future. This is mostly because despite what you say in your question, it is quieter than air cooling if done correctly. Not just easy on the eyes either, less weight on the motherboard and more airflow space inside the case, your question seems to be written quit bias towards air cooling in all honesty.
Slowly moving to AIO water coolers as they are generally better in my mind. Not had any leaks or issues and tend to just be the same noise without the ramping up and down of fans…
But… that's just my choice at moment and most of the watercoolers have been second hand
I'm not really sold on AIO's but then I've only had experience with a 120mm corsair unit, it didn't cool as well as a good dual tower air cooler.
But to answer the question, air cooled. Less things to go wrong, easy install and works well.
Jetzki
I'm not really sold on AIO's but then I've only had experience with a 120mm corsair unit, it didn't cool as well as a good dual tower air cooler.
But to answer the question, air cooled. Less things to go wrong, easy install and works well.
Found it to be slightly worse but much quieter…..
3dcandy
Found it to be slightly worse but much quieter…..
My AIO is reasonable quiet (I don't notice constant background noise unless it's a Vega64 cranking up like it's on the runway) and performance is definitely better than my old air cooler (at way higher cost which is not proportionate to the advantages gained) but there are three concerns. Firstly, if the pump fails or it leaks, that is it done. With a big heat sink air cooler if the fan fails, you still have a big heat sink and some air movement from the other fans. You'll notice something is up likely before it goes critical. Games will throttle, you'll see your temps are high and the first thing you'll look at once you've determined it's not software is the cooler. If the pump goes on the AIO, it probably turns into an insulator as the water just sits there, nice and hot over the CPU and it'll get hot very fast, possibly running into a forced, BIOS driven shutdown. Secondly, this mode of failure means you probably want to be replacing it when the pumps start to be come unreliable. Unfortuantely, there's not that much real world data out there and I've yet to find any MTBF data on my pump. Thirdly, When you do upgrade the CPU, it's a lot of money for a new one and the odds are your model is going to be obselete and you'll not be able to get a new bracket / fixings for the inevitable Intel socket change…. another reason to go AMD…. So that's a lot of money for a new cooler in with the upgrade cost. For me, that has been the icing on the cake that stopped me upgrading last time as I wanted to put the liquid cooler in at the same time rather than disassemble the whole thing to get the mobo out to fit the bracket if I bought the cooler later on.
I once liquid cooled a VHS in the middle of the night, hopefully the pc will be air all the way
Air.
Not yet had a problem cooling a CPU up to now using air. Even my OC'd 8700k (4.9 all cores)is fine on a Noctua NH-U14s (push/pull). Never seen it go above 80C during testing (AVX test apps)and usually around 50C during gaming.
Might give liquid cooling a try one day (out of interest), should I upgrade from a medium sized tower to a full sized tower at some point.
Neither. Fanless all the way. No leaks, dust or noise :cool:
AIO, few reasons.
1. I have never heard one above a graphics card fans.
2. It's easy to fit.
3. The weight is carried by the case and not the motherboard, decent air coolers are not light.
I actually don't think temp wise it makes a massive difference between an AIO or good air cooler, custom water cooled would be my preference but I'm quite obviously too lazy to go down that road.
Air - better longevity over AIO.
Top_gun
Air - better longevity over AIO.
I'm not sure how you can qualify that statement to be perfectly honest, my last AIO lasted 9 years and was still working fine when I upgraded. I didn't have to swap it out for a fresh one, however I'm too lazy to clean off the paste and reapply my own when I can just buy a new one. It would be the exact same thing with an air cooler. Chances probably are a new socket would make both of them obsolete prior to them failing.
The only thing that is easier about an air cooler is that they have less parts to fail, but I've never found an issue with either option.
Water-cooling can be as quiet as a good air cooler.
Water-cooling can cool as well as a good air cooler.
Water-cooling can be as cheap as a good air cooler.
What it can't be is all of those things at once.
Obviously air. I only want to build my PC once, not a million times per year
Since moving to an AIO many, many years ago I haven't looked back. I just like the way they keep a overclocked CPU cool and with the latest crop 360mm AIO's they are fairly quiet as well. Currently using a Corsair H150i Pro 360mm AIO and it just does the job so well on my overclocked CPU (8700K to 4.9GHz). I just leave the Mag Lev fans in quiet mode, the pump at medium and even when it auto ramps up it is quiet.
There's much to be said about the simplicity of AIR coolers and some of the best more than keep up with AIO's but for me the huge hunk of metal hanging of the CPU never looked great and was always a pain when you had to work on the PC. Thankfully in all my years I have never had an AIO fail but I am sure this does happen.
spacein_vader
Water-cooling can be as quiet as a good air cooler.
Water-cooling can cool as well as a good air cooler.
Water-cooling can be as cheap as a good air cooler.
What it can't be is all of those things at once.
Sort of not true. As a single purchase or AIO setup you are correct…but you go with a custom setup things change. Especially over time in terms of cost.
A good water custom water cooling loop isn't as quiet as an air cooler…it destroys it with nearly no noise what-so ever. It's cooling capacity, when properly built, is far superior to air cooling in every way. Now price for a custom loop setup that will do all those things properly is not cheaper then air cooling as a single purchase. I cannot argue that. However when using a custom loop you can carry over everything, with the sometimes exception of the water block. So once invested in a good custom loop set up, your costs go down considerably.
I have made the investment into water cooling a long time ago. With 2 120mm x 3 (360mm) with a thickness of 80mm I have all the cooling capacity one could ask for even in a tropical environment like Hawaii. For these reasons I will continue to liquid cool both my CPU and GPU for the foreseeable future.
Only ever used air. In the early days when I was still interested in pushing systems to the limit as a hobby, I was quite interested in phase change cooling but the cost stopped me.
Is peltier still a thing?
Just ordered my first AIO “DeepCool Gamer Storm CAPTAIN 240 EX”, to replace the “Be Quiet! Pure Rock” I've been using for a few years.
- Much prefer the way it looks
- Creates room for me to vertically mount my GPU and look even nicer
- A much better air cooler would've been huge and taken up a lot of room in my Meshify C case
I'm just hoping the performance lives up to expectations!
atomicWAR
Sort of not true. As a single purchase or AIO setup you are correct…but you go with a custom setup things change. Especially over time in terms of cost.
A good water custom water cooling loop isn't as quiet as an air cooler…it destroys it with nearly no noise what-so ever. It's cooling capacity, when properly built, is far superior to air cooling in every way. Now price for a custom loop setup that will do all those things properly is not cheaper then air cooling as a single purchase. I cannot argue that. However when using a custom loop you can carry over everything, with the sometimes exception of the water block. So once invested in a good custom loop set up, your costs go down considerably.
I have made the investment into water cooling a long time ago. With 2 120mm x 3 (360mm) with a thickness of 80mm I have all the cooling capacity one could ask for even in a tropical environment like Hawaii. For these reasons I will continue to liquid cool both my CPU and GPU for the foreseeable future.
While I do not doubt your performance claims a good noctua cooler is less than £60. You can't possibly tell me they you can build a custom loop for that. Even allowing for reuse between systems don't they need regular additives, draining etc?
In 10 years it's possible I might get through 2 coolers if I change the case or noctua don't do a plate for a new socket. That's £120 at today's prices. Would a custom loop genuinely be price competitive over that timespan?
spacein_vader
atomicWAR
Sort of not true. As a single purchase or AIO setup you are correct…but you go with a custom setup things change. Especially over time in terms of cost.
A good water custom water cooling loop isn't as quiet as an air cooler…it destroys it with nearly no noise what-so ever. It's cooling capacity, when properly built, is far superior to air cooling in every way. Now price for a custom loop setup that will do all those things properly is not cheaper then air cooling as a single purchase. I cannot argue that. However when using a custom loop you can carry over everything, with the sometimes exception of the water block. So once invested in a good custom loop set up, your costs go down considerably.
I have made the investment into water cooling a long time ago. With 2 120mm x 3 (360mm) with a thickness of 80mm I have all the cooling capacity one could ask for even in a tropical environment like Hawaii. For these reasons I will continue to liquid cool both my CPU and GPU for the foreseeable future.
While I do not doubt your performance claims a good noctua cooler is less than £60. You can't possibly tell me they you can build a custom loop for that. Even allowing for reuse between systems don't they need regular additives, draining etc?
In 10 years it's possible I might get through 2 coolers if I change the case or noctua don't do a plate for a new socket. That's £120 at today's prices. Would a custom loop genuinely be price competitive over that timespan?
Over several builds yes the cost do come down considerably. As for additives…that's more of a choice then a requirement but yes it will take away from cost effectiveness or reverse it. Personally I use just distilled water (always have in the last 15 years I have been water cooling) which cost hardly anything and if properly motivated can be made yourself using two clear jugs, tap water, a bit of brass/copper piping you can make your own for free. IF you want to go all in on color/preservative additives you can but me I don't feel right flushing all that crap down the sink or feeding it to my grass/plants. So I don't use them. If you use just distilled water over a long time frame like your talking then yes a custom loop can be that competitive. If two builds doesn't do it, three certainly will. One thing I can't argue though is…there is more hassle with drains. No question even if your only doing them 1-3 times a year.
Seem to be missing a point here that it can also be *better* at the first two, rather than just “as good”
Water cooling only when you need to be in a hardware pissing contest or you are some fancy gamer toy boy spending somebody else's money (usually Mum's) who needs all that bling.
For what? Just to get a couple of degrees of temperature difference but with heat lag issues, cost, higher noise and ultimately still a need for a big radiator fan anyway? Sheesh…
Water cooling develops leaks over time due to the wear and tear on the seals, exacerbated by repeated heating/cooling cycles that cause huge hydraulic pressure changes. For an idea of the pressure involved, think of a hydraulic jack. I don't like the stupid idea of liquids in my mission critical computing devices where my mission critical data resides!
I don't have time for games…. but stupid game boys should realise that its not a few degrees of temperature that make a difference in games. Its (1) network/internet connection speed/latency; and (2) skill, in that order, that matters most in games!
spncrmoo
Seem to be missing a point here that it can also be *better* at the first two, rather than just “as good”
I'll concede the point on those individually, I remain to be convinced it can be quieter and cooler at the same time and it certainly can't be as cheap and do all those.
I see water-cooling a bit like aftermarket exhausts, air intakes etc on cars. They can improve performance on a high end machine tuned for speed above everything and they can be purchased becaude they look appealing to the end user. But most people don't bother on either count.
moshpit
Over a decade of liquid cooling and never seen a single leak, or heard a single pump, and NONE of the radiator fans can be heard over the rest of the system, ever. Air cooling of high end processors will NEVER be as quiet as a properly setup liquid cooled machine. I can hear everything ELSE in my system, but my CPU cooling is absolutely as close to silent as a barely spinning fan can be, and this is at 5Ghz and full load across all cores on a 7700K, a known heat monster. Near silence. Beat that air coolers. Literally, when the GPU fans turns off, the ONLY sound coming from my tower is a 80mm case fan spinning at such low RPMs that unless your ear is pressed to the tower, you cannot hear it. Silence is golden.
Oh yeah, radiators don't make noise, in response to the ignorant comment above. Crappy quality pumps CAN make noise, but radiators have no moving parts, it's literally a hollow hunk of metal. Pump noise is non-existent on quality pumps, and radiators make no noise. Fans attached to the radiator spin slower than air cooled heatsinks, so those are quieter as well. And unlike aircoolers can actually run much slower the more of them you add. A 360mm radiator with 3 fans WILL be quieter than a dual fan heatsink on a high end processor. And cool as well or better.
That's the dumbest justification for water cooling. In all my time with water sports, we ALWAYS do preventive/pre-emptive maintenance of all our gear - such as changing the o-rings & assorted seals way before their time. That is the case for all flashlights, scuba gear, pumps, cases etc. etc.
To claim that you have never seen any leaks is plain ridiculous. Lots of us have. And if you claim that you have never seen any leaks WITHOUT ever changing any O-rings or seals whatsoever, that would be even more irresponsible and ridiculous. And if you never do any routine inspections and tests it would only say everything about you.
Look at all the accounts of leaks by folks doing water cooling. Some get it when they do it wrong. Some do it right but encounter it over time due to wear and tear. It happens. It will happen with all things liquid based and especially involving hydraulic pressure. Look at your car… the brake fluids, engine coolants, transmission fluids etc. all need topping up for a reason.
Generally, I ALWAYS see 3 main arguments for water cooling.
(1) Fallacy #1 - Fun. Enough said about being impractical. Fools shouldn't mix/confuse a time-wasting leisure activity as being a superior technical solution option. They are not the same. But at least these guys owning up to doing it for aimless fun are being honest!
(2) Fallacy #2 - Quietness.
To say that using a quiet hydraulic pump and a quiet fan for the water radiator leads to a quieter solution does not even make any cow sense. Water cooling has way more moving parts - pumps for the liquid and air fans blowing cool air against the radiator and out of the casing. The mathematics/physics of it is that ultimately there is a net amount of heat that must be TRANSFERRED OUT of the casing, which is no different from an air-cooled solution. Factor in the fact that you have the extra hydraulic pump which generates its own heat… plus the hydraulic pressures that generate further inefficiencies, plus the fact that everything draws more power from the power supply which in turn generates more heat in the casing… there is always MUCH MORE HEAT in the system that ends up needing to be removed overall from a water cooled solution's casing.
(3) Fallacy #3 - Lower temperature. The only reason the air fan for the water-cooling radiator spins at a lower speed isn't because it will always achieve/maintain a lower temperature, its just that the heat capacity of the liquid in a huge radiator is higher than air. Therefore due to the sheer mass of the liquid and the sheer surface area of the radiator, the temperature rises more slowly. Therefore the fan usually does not need to turn as fast at an earlier stage of initial use. But use it long enough and it will reach the same temperature as an air-cooled solution IF the amount of heat expelled out of a casing is the same! It also stays hotter longer after you power off the system due to the higher heat capacity, remember that! There is no such thing as a free lunch!
Ultimately, thermodynamics says that if your water radiator's total surface area is the same as the air-cooler's heat pipes (assuming same material too like copper) and you are using the same fan to expel heat from both - then the total heat removing CAPACITY is the same! With the latter, you don't have to waste fanciful money paying the guys profiting from your hobby and you'll have a more reliable system!
I'll even go as far as to say that water-cooling solutions, especially custom whatever stuff with massive radiator pipes are a con job targetted at fanboys. Some of the best air-coolers (eg. Noctua NH-D15? Noctua’s ‘Fanless CPU Cooler'? be quiet? NoFan CR-95C IcePipe Fanless CPU Cooler?) perform better than liquid cooling solutions and are quieter - With lower or about similar initial purchase cost but infinitely lower operating costs (electricity consumption, maintenance etc.), not to mention ease of mind - simply by removing the intermediate water stage.
After that its really up to you what kind of fan you want to use to EXPEL the hot air from the casing, which any cooling solution, even water cooled ones also need!!!
Really, whichever way you cut it, its still about drawing in cool air to blow against water radiator pipes or the passive heatpipes (in an air-cooled system) and outwards! In fact, the latter's air-cooled copper heatpipes are also a form of water-cooling. In fact, they are arguably even better and more efficient by using passive latent heat transfer principles of phase transition (liquid-vapour-liquid) utilising capillary action, centrifugal force, or gravity! Cheaper and maintenance free without the need for failure prone electric pumps and leaking joints!
“atomicWAR
Sort of not true. As a single purchase or AIO setup you are correct…but you go with a custom setup things change. Especially over time in terms of cost.
A good water custom water cooling loop isn't as quiet as an air cooler…it destroys it with nearly no noise what-so ever. It's cooling capacity, when properly built, is far superior to air cooling in every way. Now price for a custom loop setup that will do all those things properly is not cheaper then air cooling as a single purchase. I cannot argue that. However when using a custom loop you can carry over everything, with the sometimes exception of the water block. So once invested in a good custom loop set up, your costs go down considerably.
I have made the investment into water cooling a long time ago. With 2 120mm x 3 (360mm) with a thickness of 80mm I have all the cooling capacity one could ask for even in a tropical environment like Hawaii. For these reasons I will continue to liquid cool both my CPU and GPU for the foreseeable future.”
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@atomicWAR - Your argument is typical of water-cooling fan-boys ignorance that needs to be debunked once and for all.
See my reply to another one just like you - @moshpit. Your water cooled solution consumes more power due to the hydraulic pump, the inefficiencies caused by the hydraulic fluid flow (go study fluid dynamics for heaven's sakes). This already means that it already produces more heat that needs to be removed from the system!
Thermodynamics in physics also tells us that to prevent a proverbial melt-down of your motherboard (not that it will happen due to CPU/GPU throttling), the TOTAL HEAT to be removed from the casing must EQUAL the heat output from all the components in it to prevent a never ending temperature rise (again in the absence of throttling).
Your arguments that a water-cooled solution is quieter than an air-cooled one is misguided and a common misperception of water cooling fanboys. It is merely premised on the basis that the higher specific heat capacity of the liquid coolant leads to a higher total heat capacity of the water-cooling solution (heat pipes, radiator, metallic mass, liquid mass) and therefore a seemingly lower initial temperature and slower fan speeds. But in truth, a water cooling solution merely DELAYS the temperature rise. However, you guys conveniently ignore (or don't know) the thermodynamics physics of heat transfer OUT OF THE THERMODYNAMIC SYSTEM (i.e. the casing) that is ultimately necessary. Else the water cooling soution will still reach the same critical melt-down temperatures (in the absence of throttling) if it runs long enough (like a few hours of gaming). This is the notorious heat lag issue that fanboys talk about in the absence of any understanding about the physics. The whole system gets hot more slowly BUT stays hot for much longer too after powering down. In fact, that's how cars work too… they remain hot long after you have switched off the engine due to the huge amount of boiling hot water in the radiator! Try touching the engine bonnet! That is why often times, their radiator fans have to keep running on battery power for a while after engine shut off! There is simply no free lunch in life!
A water-cooled solution (like that in a car) merely increases the total heat capacity of the system (car/PC casing as the case may be), because water has a higher “specific heat capacity” than air. It helps with sudden spikes in temperature as the “system” has a total heat capacitance that can passively absorb more heat energy in joules before displaying a temperature rise. Its essential for ICE (internal combustion engines) vehicles where the mini-explosions in the combustion engine produce lots of heat upon the instant of engine ignition which therefore requires a big bulky water cooled radiator solution. Without which, the engine oils will combust and turn to carbon black goo and the metal parts may suffer metal fatigue or even melt. However, this solution is precisely why ICE (internal combustion engines) vehicles are so inefficient! The hydraulic pump and fluid dynamics inefficiencies needed to move that big mass of fluids, make it one hell of an energy guzzler! BUT - All water-based cooling solutions are just intermediate cooling measures that ultimately need an air-cooler to transfer the heat EXTERNALLY - that is the point!
A water-cooled system is hardly necessary for computers since the heat builds up more slowly and levels off at about 100 degrees celsius anyway (with throttling)!
The quietest air-cooled solutions will always be quieter than any water-cooled solution, with less vibrations too. Simply because there will be FEWER moving parts. In its simplest form, a passively cooled fan-less setup is unbeatable in terms of gross heat output, running cost, total silence, total vibration-free operation.
Even in an active air-cooled system, any good air-cooler with quiet bearingless fans from any reputable brand (be quiet!, Arctic, Noctua) will REMOVE HEAT FROM a casing just as well and as silently as the radiator's fan in a water-cooled system! In fact, to make an apple-apple comparison, if the surface area (and material, say copper) of the radiator of a water-cooled solution is the same as the copper heatpipes in an air-cooled solution, and they use the same exact fan, the total heat transfer capability OUT of the casing will be the same! With lower cost, weight, and complexity in the latter!
The bigger slower fans sound a great idea for cutting down noise.
Having used a Corsair sealed water cooling system for several years I'll be looking for more of the same. Undoubtedly with a larger fan area.
It really annoys me the way they advertise say a unit with 2 X 120mm fans as 240mm. It feels intentionally misleading.
If leaking water cooled units were a real problem, I'm sure there would be loads of irate posting on the subject.
Funny story about air and water cooling…
When I was planning what to use as cooling for my Threadripper setup, I decided that I should probably go for some AIO water cooling kit. But I couldn't decide so fast, and I got all my parts already.
So I decided to buy some cheap AIR cooler as a temporary solution. I went for Arctic Freezer 33 TR cooler, as it was just 35 bucks.
That thing was so good, that I after a month I stopped looking for water cooling.
It is quiet, keeps TR temperature well in check (I do not remember when I hit 80'C the last time, even on 100% all cores on tasks that run for more than 40mins). Also, even when RPMs go up, it makes this lovely sounds (it's more like a hum, not some high pitch noise). I love it.
So to all of you, try some nice AIR cooler first, and if that doesn't work for you, consider water cooling.
No point in liquid cooling if the only way to actually achieve better performance than air cooling is by spending rivers of money on a custom loop. So at least for the foreseeable future I'll always be air cooling my systems.
Air, less things that can go wrong.
Thinking about building another HTCP, which would just be air… but my main rig will always be custom liquid cooled, not so much for performance reasons (it is nice having temps so low but still so quiet) but because tinkering with the liquid cooling setup is a hobby, in an of itself. It's certainly not worth the $500+ worth of components I've put into it, from a performance stand point!
preter_s
“atomicWAR
Sort of not true. As a single purchase or AIO setup you are correct…but you go with a custom setup things change. Especially over time in terms of cost.
A good water custom water cooling loop isn't as quiet as an air cooler…it destroys it with nearly no noise what-so ever. It's cooling capacity, when properly built, is far superior to air cooling in every way. Now price for a custom loop setup that will do all those things properly is not cheaper then air cooling as a single purchase. I cannot argue that. However when using a custom loop you can carry over everything, with the sometimes exception of the water block. So once invested in a good custom loop set up, your costs go down considerably.
I have made the investment into water cooling a long time ago. With 2 120mm x 3 (360mm) with a thickness of 80mm I have all the cooling capacity one could ask for even in a tropical environment like Hawaii. For these reasons I will continue to liquid cool both my CPU and GPU for the foreseeable future.”
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@atomicWAR - Your argument is typical of water-cooling fan-boys ignorance that needs to be debunked once and for all.
See my reply to another one just like you - @moshpit. Your water cooled solution consumes more power due to the hydraulic pump, the inefficiencies caused by the hydraulic fluid flow (go study fluid dynamics for heaven's sakes). This already means that it already produces more heat that needs to be removed from the system!
Thermodynamics in physics also tells us that to prevent a proverbial melt-down of your motherboard (not that it will happen due to CPU/GPU throttling), the TOTAL HEAT to be removed from the casing must EQUAL the heat output from all the components in it to prevent a never ending temperature rise (again in the absence of throttling).
Your arguments that a water-cooled solution is quieter than an air-cooled one is misguided and a common misperception of water cooling fanboys. It is merely premised on the basis that the higher specific heat capacity of the liquid coolant leads to a higher total heat capacity of the water-cooling solution (heat pipes, radiator, metallic mass, liquid mass) and therefore a seemingly lower initial temperature and slower fan speeds. But in truth, a water cooling solution merely DELAYS the temperature rise. However, you guys conveniently ignore (or don't know) the thermodynamics physics of heat transfer OUT OF THE THERMODYNAMIC SYSTEM (i.e. the casing) that is ultimately necessary. Else the water cooling soution will still reach the same critical melt-down temperatures (in the absence of throttling) if it runs long enough (like a few hours of gaming). This is the notorious heat lag issue that fanboys talk about in the absence of any understanding about the physics. The whole system gets hot more slowly BUT stays hot for much longer too after powering down. In fact, that's how cars work too… they remain hot long after you have switched off the engine due to the huge amount of boiling hot water in the radiator! Try touching the engine bonnet! That is why often times, their radiator fans have to keep running on battery power for a while after engine shut off! There is simply no free lunch in life!
A water-cooled solution (like that in a car) merely increases the total heat capacity of the system (car/PC casing as the case may be), because water has a higher “specific heat capacity” than air. It helps with sudden spikes in temperature as the “system” has a total heat capacitance that can passively absorb more heat energy in joules before displaying a temperature rise. Its essential for ICE (internal combustion engines) vehicles where the mini-explosions in the combustion engine produce lots of heat upon the instant of engine ignition which therefore requires a big bulky water cooled radiator solution. Without which, the engine oils will combust and turn to carbon black goo and the metal parts may suffer metal fatigue or even melt. However, this solution is precisely why ICE (internal combustion engines) vehicles are so inefficient! The hydraulic pump and fluid dynamics inefficiencies needed to move that big mass of fluids, make it one hell of an energy guzzler! BUT - All water-based cooling solutions are just intermediate cooling measures that ultimately need an air-cooler to transfer the heat EXTERNALLY - that is the point!
A water-cooled system is hardly necessary for computers since the heat builds up more slowly and levels off at about 100 degrees celsius anyway (with throttling)!
The quietest air-cooled solutions will always be quieter than any water-cooled solution, with less vibrations too. Simply because there will be FEWER moving parts. In its simplest form, a passively cooled fan-less setup is unbeatable in terms of gross heat output, running cost, total silence, total vibration-free operation.
Even in an active air-cooled system, any good air-cooler with quiet bearingless fans from any reputable brand (be quiet!, Arctic, Noctua) will REMOVE HEAT FROM a casing just as well and as silently as the radiator's fan in a water-cooled system! In fact, to make an apple-apple comparison, if the surface area (and material, say copper) of the radiator of a water-cooled solution is the same as the copper heatpipes in an air-cooled solution, and they use the same exact fan, the total heat transfer capability OUT of the casing will be the same! With lower cost, weight, and complexity in the latter!
WOW that is fairly laughable for a host of reasons. First off a properly built water cooling setup IS quieter…period. No question. If you mount your pumps properly to minimize vibration and fill your reservoir when it is even a little low sound is not an issue. If it is, you did it wrong.
Yes water heats up over time and will continue to do so unless the heat dissipation of the radiator exceeds the heat added to the system (CPU/ram/GPU pumps)…anything in the loop. Yes the heat needs to be expelled from the system or your motherboard and other components will suffer. Funny thing my radiators are all OUTSIDE of my case…so that heat has ZERO effect on my components in the case. I urge all water cooled loops to do the same but that's just me. I am not arguing air cooling is insufficient, it is but in most cases it just isn't as good at maintaining lower temps when overclocking. I can game for HOURS and HOURs with my components staying cool. My CPU even running for 24 straight hours under full load never exceeds 70C (that bit where you check you CPU stability when OCing with things like burn test, OCCT, etc …so clearly my loop is more then sufficient despite living in a tropical environment where air cooling does not work well when overclocking (ambient temps is typically 80F+). I did not exclusively water cool until I moved to Hawaii because of the maintenance involved. I use to have 6 PCs running full tilt before getting married/moving out here for and the cost became a concern. Only 2 were water cooled back then.
My air cooled OC secondary rig fried within 6 months of moving to Hawaii. It had smoke fire the whole nine. Since going to water cooling exclusively, haven't lost a CPU or motherboard since. I only recently started cooling GPUs with water after having many problems with throttling and blowing caps (RIP GTX 1080/670)
While I do love a good physics based argument as a physics fanboy, your argument falls short IF the loop is properly built for the heat and environment it is running in (ie you know physics like myself and science the heck out of it). When living in California my Rad's were only 40mm thick and typically with only one or two 120mm fans (ie 120mm or 240mm Rad). It was much cooler and wasn't an issue when the indoor temp was only 70F at most. Here in Hawaii a loop like that would do exactly like you describe and have heat lag spikes after long gaming sessions unless I had the fans running full tilt which I hate. One of the other reasons imoved to water cooling was I was tired of my PC sounding like a jet engine when exclusively air cooling. This is not an issue I have running 3x120mm at 80mm thick for just my CPU…my GPU gets a whole other rad just like it, though that is admittedly overkill but i had the parts lying around so I used them. Point being my water cooling setup is inaudible when properly maintained.
Now one thing you might notice i said a lot of was properly built and properly maintained. Now If you don't do those things your argument is dead on the money. I won't disagree BUT if someone actually knows what they are doing and knows a fair bit about physics..heck even a little bit…then your argument falls apart very very quickly. Now there is one point in your argument that I cannot tear apart no matter how much I wish I could and that is complexity. There you have me dead to rights. Water cooling with a custom loop does by it's very nature increase complexity. Your right about that. Another spot you have some legs with your argument would be electricity used. Pumps and fans do take more juice to run then just a fan for air cooling. And yes you still relay on air for the radiator to finish expelling heat from the system. The rest however just leaves me chuckling. I'll agree there are plenty of water cooling “fanboys” out there that do not build their loops correctly and do have many of the issues you speak of. However with a little research and preparation there is zero reason for those mistakes to happen. One last thing, before you claim someone doesn't understand or ignores thermodynamics, you might want to make sure they didn't study to be an engineer in college, just saying…It was the very first thing i was considering when building my loop!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2SIrV_4-dM&t=429sCompletely overbuilt water cooling set-up but it makes my point well enough…kind of like how i over built mine, though not to that extreme.
At the end of the day all cooling setups have rheir strengths and weaknesses. Water cooling is complex, has potential for leaks and requires maintance. But when done properly has superior cooling capacity and is silent. Air cooling with large raditators can damage motherboards due to their weight (Noctua D15 for example) hanging from the CPU socket. This is a well known issue btw. And like all forms of cooling it requires you make sure the thermal capacity rating exceeds your thermal output. And then there's the size issue. Large air coolers frequently block or make ram slots hard to access. Not to mention they can have difficulty fitting in a case, a short coming custom liquid cooling can slso share. On the plus side air cooling is easier to install and maintain only needing new thermal compound ever few years. Most importantly air cooling doesn't suffer leaks or have near the complexity water cooling has. It comes down to comfort and use case as to which solution works best for you.
I don't know that I'd call myself a water cooling fanboy. I am a person who believes ever job has the proper tool. For where I live, the temps I deal with and my aversion to noise…water cooling suits my needs far better than strictly air. Yes yes air is still needed to pull heat from the rad but IMHO you are just splitting hairs with that argument. Air is needed in all types of PC cooling in one way or another. I am happy for you air cooling suffices for your build but it doesn't mean it's for everyone or that because I water cool I am ignorant of the physics behind it. Some users may well be….no some users are ignorant. I am just not one of them. Math and sciences are very much my thing!
All pc's are air cooled!
It's just that some people insist in putting water in the way.
water cooled now, its reliable, next system also going to be either water or oil cooled.
@atomicWAR - Despite you acknowledging most of what I have argued, you still persist in embarrassing yourself.
“My CPU even running for 24 straight hours under full load never exceeds 70C”.
I will only bother to reply to that point since it is so laughable! 70 degrees celsius despite all that water-cooling hassle??!?! Exactly my point!
Good air cooling done right can easily achieve that! What a joke! LOL!
See Hexus' own reviews of the NoFan CR-95C IcePipe Fanless CPU Cooler:
https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cooling/33008-nofan-cr-95c-icepipe/?page=2- 72.2 degrees celsius with the chasis fans turned OFF!
- 60 degrees celsius with the chasis fans turned on!
Fanboys like you are such a joke!
You will not get a temp that low with the voltage I run with air cooling where I live…full stop. Ambient temps are extremely important, something you seem happy to ignore. I would no more tell someone who doesn't overclock living in the far north where ambient temps can be 60-70F or less, that water cooling was needed. When house hold temps can reach 90F (summer time with AC on…80F or so in winter), water cooling becomes much more useful. They do not make an air cooler with a big enough rad for my needs. Even the famed Noctua d15 would have trouble where my pc is in use. One reason why my water rad is 80mm thick @ 360mm. Yes water cooling has more hassle but for me it works best for my use case. And if someone is a joke of a fan boy, find a mirror. You choose to only apply the knowledge that fits your argument and ignore everything else. At least I am big enough to admit both the strengths and weakness of both setups. I dare you to do the same…oh wait fan boys like yourself just ignore logic so clearly we are done here. Have a nice day!
My next PC will probably be water-cooled, mainly because I have a brand-new and unused liquid cooling system aitting here waiting for a PC to put it in.
Do I need it? Not really. But it's here so what-the-heck?
atomicWAR
You will not get a temp that low with the voltage I run with air cooling where I live…full stop. Ambient temps are extremely important, something you seem happy to ignore. I would no more tell someone who doesn't overclock living in the far north where ambient temps can be 60-70F or less, that water cooling was needed. When house hold temps can reach 90F (summer time with AC on…80F or so in winter), water cooling becomes much more useful. They do not make an air cooler with a big enough rad for my needs. Even the famed Noctua d15 would have trouble where my pc is in use. One reason why my water rad is 80mm thick @ 360mm. Yes water cooling has more hassle but for me it works best for my use case. And if someone is a joke of a fan boy, find a mirror. You choose to only apply the knowledge that fits your argument and ignore everything else. At least I am big enough to admit both the strengths and weakness of both setups. I dare you to do the same…oh wait fan boys like yourself just ignore logic so clearly we are done here. Have a nice day!
You're an idiot who concedes that there is no disputing the physics involved in cooling that I pointed out, and yet you still cling to your fangirl guns and embarrass yourself.
That Hexus review was nearly 8 years ago! Using one of the better air cooling solutions back then! For Sandy Bridge! The ones available now are way better! Get up to speed with technological developments please! All you need is good airflow in and out of the chasis nowadays with good air cooling heatpipe tech!
The reason your solution is so crap is because you can't even do water cooling right. Despite you trying to get street cred by acknowledging the physics I pointed out, you clearly do not really understand it. That's typical of fangirls. You probably think running a radiator outside your PC (what a butt ugly PC you have!) is enough. But its not! Its the airflow that matters! Its the amount of cool air blowing against the radiator pipes/fins that count in the end. Ultimately its still an air-cooled solution - GEDDIT!
What an idiot!
Dont bang yer head on the way out…. Idiot ;P
Have had both, Probably go with AIO RGB with LCD display low profile for looks.
Either air or water works, What's more important is having a stable ambient room temperature, This is where my aircon wins! ;)
My brother in law had a PC custom built (£2,500 i think) it was liquid cooled he had it 2 years and then it leaked and blew some of the components, I offered to fix it for free he refused saying he'd get an expert to look at it.. (Long story short he was going to throw it away I took it home as trash and got it working using £50 of parts! he wasn't too happy about that)
My son had a liquid-cooled PC using a “Deepcool Genome II case” a year and a half later it leaked from the CPU block luckily my son had the sense to turn it off quick.
I stripped it down and used a normal heatsink & fan and its running better now than before well not as quiet but strangely temperatures have dropped on it maybe it was faulty in the first place, but I know we will not ever use liquid cooling again.
Also a friend of mine has given up on them too, not worth the risk of leaks there too common.
Air cooled, Noctua NH-D15 Premium CPU Cooler with 2x NF-A15 PWM 140mm Fans.
Air cooling. It's cheaper and much simpler. Could possible consider water cooling in the future, but not at this point in time.