$1,000 for a monitor stand is peak Apple.
Expensive base price with relatively low end hardware - check
Proprietary sockets for the gpu(s), ssds etc - check
No stand with the monitor (ugly vents imo) and the stand costs $1000 (so that will be £1000 in the UK then)with what looks to be a proprietary connector meaning you need the vesa mount at $199 for another stand…
Mac Pro's case is ugly imo, although I do like the slide off casing, except if it goes under a desk….
I like the ‘channelled’ air flow approach to the layout, it should be fairly efficient and quiet, shame we don't get a bit more of that on the pc side of things.
No idea why it has sata connectors on the inside because it has nowhere to store that type of drive… and the only storage it has uses proprietary sockets…
If you think about it objectively this new mac pro is no more upgradable than the old one…. yes you can add more stuff to it but you can't do it yourself like the old g5/xeon cheese grater case of old…
I'm technically the target market for this and only thing I've seen in it that makes me think it's a ‘nice product’ is the cooling set up which is easy to do if everything in the case is basically using proprietary connectors… I'm still far more interested in next threadripper or a sweet spot 16core rzyen 3
The screen looks fairly nice (well minus the case), but 30inch is too big for me personally, but I'm sure there will be other options out at some point because it seems to be the only one at those specs from a quick google.
That stand does less than the one Dell include with their P and U series - much less height adjustment, no rotate on the base.
Shiny and pretty, but again not a pro product.
Jesus. $6000/£6000 for a screen like that is a bargain and a half (if the spec sheet is accurate)
Very un-Apple
1000 nits sustained, full screen brightness and 1600 nits peak, on a monitor you are sitting close to. Who's going to be able to use that without sunglasses on and without being blinded?
mtyson
An official introductory feature video for those interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl4Hg23RQHQ
So you have almost trillion valued company with billions in cash, and they came up with this?!!!
I laughed hard, but in the end I am sad for all Apple fans.
For the company claiming to be so ecological oriented but then makes the case that will need liters and liters of water to carve out that “3D” mesh.
Interesting also how they disabled the comments on their video.
Apple needs new leadership. Existing one is so full of themselves and they forgot the mission.
LSG501
Expensive base price with relatively low end hardware - check
Proprietary sockets for the gpu(s), ssds etc - check
No stand with the monitor (ugly vents imo) and the stand costs $1000 (so that will be £1000 in the UK then)with what looks to be a proprietary connector meaning you need the vesa mount at $199 for another stand…
Mac Pro's case is ugly imo, although I do like the slide off casing, except if it goes under a desk….
I like the ‘channelled’ air flow approach to the layout, it should be fairly efficient and quiet, shame we don't get a bit more of that on the pc side of things.
No idea why it has sata connectors on the inside because it has nowhere to store that type of drive… and the only storage it has uses proprietary sockets…
If you think about it objectively this new mac pro is no more upgradable than the old one…. yes you can add more stuff to it but you can't do it yourself like the old g5/xeon cheese grater case of old…
I'm technically the target market for this and only thing I've seen in it that makes me think it's a ‘nice product’ is the cooling set up which is easy to do if everything in the case is basically using proprietary connectors… I'm still far more interested in next threadripper or a sweet spot 16core rzyen 3
The screen looks fairly nice (well minus the case), but 30inch is too big for me personally, but I'm sure there will be other options out at some point because it seems to be the only one at those specs from a quick google.
You are definitely not the target market for these products, for professional video editing markets this is pretty good, this market is not interests in DIY and pays for serviceability, support contracts, OSX video editing software, the XDR monitor in particular is excellent value compared to the the pro spec video production monitors that costs tens of thousands of dollars.
Mmmmm Shiny!
Kato-2
You are definitely not the target market for these products, for professional video editing markets this is pretty good, this market is not interests in DIY and pays for serviceability
That's the problem, they've limited their target market for what is essentially a workstation computer, down to pretty much only video editors. You don't have to sacrifice standards-based modularisation for support and serviceability. That only significantly narrows your support and service options. We know that this will be trash can 2.0, it'll hardly shift any units, and again they wont bother offering the upgrades for the proprietary junk because there'll be no money in it. It'll just sit on the Apple store for 4-5 years trying to peddle the same crap launch day specs at launch day prices.
aidanjt
That's the problem, they've limited their target market for what is essentially a workstation computer, down to pretty much only video editors. You don't have to sacrifice standards-based modularisation for support and serviceability. That only significantly narrows your support and service options. We know that this will be trash can 2.0, it'll hardly shift any units, and again they wont bother offering the upgrades for the proprietary junk because there'll be no money in it. It'll just sit on the Apple store for 4-5 years trying to peddle the same crap launch day specs at launch day prices.
Wot he said X 2
I guess they want the rest of the workstation market to use iMac Pro's, which aint really what they want or need I'd guess.
Kato-2
You are definitely not the target market for these products, for professional video editing markets this is pretty good, this market is not interests in DIY and pays for serviceability, support contracts, OSX video editing software, the XDR monitor in particular is excellent value compared to the the pro spec video production monitors that costs tens of thousands of dollars.
Before trying to make sweeping assumptions and trying to ‘protect’ Apple you might want to realise that not all people on this forum just like computers and use them to play games….
Actually I AM in the target market… I do 3D design which is one of the things they mention (maya) on their own site, then there is video editing of any animations and photoshop for post processing of still images… another 2 items they mention in their promotional blurb…. in essence I'm actually one of the few people on this forum who would actually be able to fully make use of the hardware on a daily basis.
blokeinkent
Cheese grater anyone?
Indeed my first thought was “do you get the cheese grater for free”
aidanjt
$1,000 for a monitor stand is peak Apple.
But it's an Apple “pro” stand ;)
blokeinkent
Cheese grater anyone?
That was my first impression.
Still, it's nice they've at least updated it from the horrible case they tried to cram all the old hardware in.
3dcandy
But it's an Apple “pro” stand ;)
Perhaps they could sellotape 256GB of RAM and 4TB of NVMe to it and charge an extra $8,000.
mtyson
An official introductory feature video for those interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl4Hg23RQHQ
I thought the mesh was two perforated plates superimposed at first, but it looks more like they've pecked in with a ball-end end mill on both sides. Looks neat, but that's going to need a lot of thickness - and it's useless for structure, that's handled perfectly well by the stainless (and maybe chrome plated?) frame. I also wonder why the fans have such large hubs? Either apple have got it wrong, or literally every other fan manufacturer has missed something
darcotech
So you have almost trillion valued company with billions in cash, and they came up with this?!!!
I laughed hard, but in the end I am sad for all Apple fans.
For the company claiming to be so ecological oriented but then makes the case that will need liters and liters of water to carve out that “3D” mesh.
Interesting also how they disabled the comments on their video.
Apple needs new leadership. Existing one is so full of themselves and they forgot the mission.
The biggest environmental impact for the case will be the aluminium energy requirements - cutting fluid gets recycled anyway
… It relies on an Intel Xeon processor with as many as 28 CPU cores, supporting up to 1.5TB of RAM and up to 4TB of SSD storage. The 300 watt processor is supported by a 1.4kW power supply. There's also a mix of PCIe 4.0 expansion slots.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/03/apple_wwdc_macpro_itunes/I don't mean to link to a competing news source and i didn't watch the stream, but surely this is a mis-type. Intel isn't expecting to have 4.0 till at least 2020/2021 for high performance desktop CPUs…right?
Xlucine
I also wonder why the fans have such large hubs? Either apple have got it wrong, or literally every other fan manufacturer has missed something
They're likely a ‘hybrid’ fan. The mac pro is using a lot of the principles used in servers with regard to channelled air flow which usually relies on high pressure fans, which are usually a little thicker in servers. We all know that server fans aren't exactly quiet so what Apple (or their fan supplier) have likely done is changed the fan blade profile/diameter etc to keep the high pressure and using that extra thickness to reduce the noise/rotation speed etc.
darcotech
For the company claiming to be so ecological oriented but then makes the case that will need liters and liters of water to carve out that “3D” mesh.
Claiming is the word though.
Any company which glues and solders all their products so they can't be upgraded hardly has any green credentials.
Never pay attention to PR words: instead look at actual actions.
And when it comes to actions, Apple's corporate culture is 100% planned obsolescence consumerists junk with a high price tag.
$199…. for a VESA adapter??? It's aluminum, not titanium.
Processors aren't out so there's no pricing to work out how much you're being gouged on them. The closest current Xeon W to that 8/16 base model is £1100 on scan and $1200 on newegg though.
Releasing a native ‘6k’ monitor and saying its intended to master 4k content is a bit weird, isn't it? Non-integer upscaling or non-fullscreen use, I guess?
It's a positive that they have reverted back to the older style Mac Pro casing - looks much nicer and eminently more practical..but that price, wow it's just crazy.
I may not be the target market now but I have been in the past, and I bought a Mac Pro back in 2009. That had dual xeons, Nvidia 8800GT, 16gb ram and 1tb of disk space, and it was an absolute bagain for £1600…you couldn't build a machine yourself of that spec for that money at the time, and as I was buying through my business I was actually paying 17.5% less than that since we could reclaim the VAT. It was a brilliant machine that lasted me until 2016 with my only upgardes being graphics cards & adding SSDs.
Skip forward today and even with inflation, the base model is nearly 3 times the cost, and vs the top end consumer kit will likely have a similar performance gap in % terms. Crazy.
Apple really lost their way after Steve Jobs died. Each year their pricing becomes less and less competitive, their products become less innovative and ultimately less appealing. Such a shame.
Spud1
Apple really lost their way after Steve Jobs died. Each year their pricing becomes less and less competitive, their products become less innovative and ultimately less appealing. Such a shame.
Apple pricing has never been competitive, but when they're on their game it doesn't need to be as the rest couldn't offer what they did especially running OS X.
Last time Apple began to disappear up itself it was saved by the second coming of Jobs. Not an option this time.
spacein_vader
Apple pricing has never been competitive, but when they're on their game it doesn't need to be as the rest couldn't offer what they did especially running OS X. .
i'd disagree with “never” and replace that with “rarely” - they have on occasion been compettive and in some cases the cheapest on the market for the quality of hardware you get. Again in that similar timescale, around 2006 their macbooks were cheaper than equivalent quality Windows devices by around £200 (£100 by the time you add on a Windows licence), and Windows was officially supported via bootcamp.
iPads have seen a spell of being the most competitively priced tablets soon after that, and even the Mac Mini was an oddly low priced item for it's size and specs for a while.
not anymore though and i grant you that the vast majority have been heavily overpriced (notably the mobile and iMac range). You really do have to take quality into account thougn, particularly with their laptops - all metal solid builds vs the cheap plastics of most Windows machines made a huge difference at the time.
darcotech
Apple needs new leadership. The existing one is so full of themselves and they forgot the mission.
Ground Control to Major Tom, I think you are 100% correct. The brand was simplicity and being a stand-alone product with no ots components. However, they can't follow that ideology anymore as the consumer wants things here and now. they may have a large value as a company but they don't have the resources to build an entire computer that can do what the people who buy this cheese grater will use it for
So $6k for the base system that comes with 1 256gb ssd and this is being touted as being a good system for editing 4/8k videos which are huge files, and on top of that the base specs aren't that brilliant either. Just doing a rough calculation on upgrades etc and fully loaded you're probably looking at upwards of $40k!
LSG501
They're likely a ‘hybrid’ fan. The mac pro is using a lot of the principles used in servers with regard to channelled air flow which usually relies on high pressure fans, which are usually a little thicker in servers. We all know that server fans aren't exactly quiet so what Apple (or their fan supplier) have likely done is changed the fan blade profile/diameter etc to keep the high pressure and using that extra thickness to reduce the noise/rotation speed etc.
A thicker fan is helpful as it lets you have a steeper pitch while retaining a sensible chord, to give both low RPM and high airflow, but every fan on the market these days (including those optimised for pressure for heatsinks or radiators) has a much smaller hub in proportion to the overall diameter. If apple had the hub smaller they'd have more blade area, and so move more air at similar noise levels.
edmundhonda
Processors aren't out so there's no pricing to work out how much you're being gouged on them. The closest current Xeon W to that 8/16 base model is £1100 on scan and $1200 on newegg though.
Releasing a native ‘6k’ monitor and saying its intended to master 4k content is a bit weird, isn't it? Non-integer upscaling or non-fullscreen use, I guess?
You'll need some screen space for the toolbars if you're editing a 4k image/video
Xlucine
If apple had the hub smaller they'd have more blade area, and so move more air at similar noise levels.
Not necessarily, there are reasons you would go for a larger hub (or more accurately a larger diameter cover over the hub in this case) when you look at fluid dynamics (air is basically a fluid in this instance). It's probably (I've only ‘touched’ on fluid dynamics so limited knowledge) causing a low pressure point behind the hub which would then pull the air in towards it (think upside down ‘Y’ shape) and as such give a tighter air flow path, which is better for the design of the air flow in the mac pro.
I'm sure the designers of the fan have their reasons whatever it is, hell it could just be they found most of the ‘air noise’ was coming from near the hub and blocked it off lol.
LSG501
Not necessarily, there are reasons you would go for a larger hub (or more accurately a larger diameter cover over the hub in this case) when you look at fluid dynamics (air is basically a fluid in this instance). It's probably (I've only ‘touched’ on fluid dynamics so limited knowledge) causing a low pressure point behind the hub which would then pull the air in towards it (think upside down ‘Y’ shape) and as such give a tighter air flow path, which is better for the design of the air flow in the mac pro.
I'm sure the designers of the fan have their reasons whatever it is, hell it could just be they found most of the ‘air noise’ was coming from near the hub and blocked it off lol.
The larger hub would also mean the air has to move further to fill the gap. Aeroacoustic noise is proportional to a high power of the flow speed, so unless they really messed up the hub design then it's dominated by the blade extremities as the air is moving faster there - it's just a really odd design choice for a company that claims the engineering prowess that apple does
LSG501
I'm sure the designers of the fan have their reasons whatever it is, hell it could just be they found most of the ‘air noise’ was coming from near the hub and blocked it off lol.
Apple cynicism remains high I see (pun intended). Within the discipline of impellor design the hub is called the ‘eye’ and a larger eye is proven to reduce the volume of material (air in this case) that the impellor ends up recirculating.
It is a loooonnnng time since I had to do rotational velocity calculations for impellors and propellors but as far as I remember… The basic principle is that for a single revolution a point on the edge of a disk travels a much longer circumference than a point near the centre on the same radius. For both tip and root of a fan blade to start and end the revolution at the same time (which they must), the tip must travel significantly faster than the root. Convert the velocities to pressure and all other things being equal, there is a standing pressure gradient that rises from the edge of the eye (low) to the tip of the blade (high). Hence, a larger eye reduces the pressure differential and hence the volume of air that ends up being recirculated near the root as the ‘system’ seeks equilibreum.
I would agree that Apple has lost it's way since Jobs' passing. Like him or loathe him Jobs was a technology visionary, as proved by the two stints at Apple and the one at Next Step. Tim Cook is not a visionary of any sort - He is an accountant(!)
matts-uk
Apple cynicism remains high I see (pun intended). Within the discipline of impellor design the hub is called the ‘eye’ and a larger eye is proven to reduce the volume of material (air in this case) that the impellor ends up recirculating.
It is a loooonnnng time since I had to do rotational velocity calculations for impellors and propellors but as far as I remember… The basic principle is that for a single revolution a point on the edge of a disk travels a much longer circumference than a point near the centre on the same radius. For both tip and root of a fan blade to start and end the revolution at the same time (which they must), the tip must travel significantly faster than the root. Convert the velocities to pressure and all other things being equal, there is a standing pressure gradient that rises from the edge of the eye (low) to the tip of the blade (high). Hence, a larger eye reduces the pressure differential and hence the volume of air that ends up being recirculated near the root as the ‘system’ seeks equilibreum.
I would agree that Apple has lost it's way since Jobs' passing. Like him or loathe him Jobs was a technology visionary, as proved by the two stints at Apple and the one at Next Step. Tim Cook is not a visionary of any sort - He is an accountant(!)
Jonny Ives gone as well…
matts-uk
Apple cynicism remains high I see (pun intended). Within the discipline of impellor design the hub is called the ‘eye’ and a larger eye is proven to reduce the volume of material (air in this case) that the impellor ends up recirculating.
It is a loooonnnng time since I had to do rotational velocity calculations for impellors and propellors but as far as I remember… The basic principle is that for a single revolution a point on the edge of a disk travels a much longer circumference than a point near the centre on the same radius. For both tip and root of a fan blade to start and end the revolution at the same time (which they must), the tip must travel significantly faster than the root. Convert the velocities to pressure and all other things being equal, there is a standing pressure gradient that rises from the edge of the eye (low) to the tip of the blade (high). Hence, a larger eye reduces the pressure differential and hence the volume of air that ends up being recirculated near the root as the ‘system’ seeks equilibreum.
I would agree that Apple has lost it's way since Jobs' passing. Like him or loathe him Jobs was a technology visionary, as proved by the two stints at Apple and the one at Next Step. Tim Cook is not a visionary of any sort - He is an accountant(!)
You convert the velocities to pressure via the angle of attack (and coefficient of lift of each blade section), hence the higher geometric pitch on fan blades as they near the hub to flatten out the pressure gradient. Granted it's not a 1:1 relationship between AoA and geometric pitch, due to the different inflow (and even assuming constant inflow velocity then hydrodynamic pitch increases towards the hub), but the pressure difference between the root and tip is more than just a function of blade speed