$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!
I like the iphone but my god that is a crazy price for the xs max
CAT-THE-FIFTH
$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!
but that essentially 720p display is liquid retina…
Also got to laugh how Apple used to go on about fragmentation on Android yet they now have about 6 different resolutions not to mention different screen ratio's on just their iPhones…
LSG501
CAT-THE-FIFTH
$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!
but that essentially 720p display is liquid retina…
Also got to laugh how Apple used to go on about fragmentation on Android yet they now have about 6 different resolutions not to mention different screen ratio's on just their iPhones…
funny how the iPhone 5s, released back in 2013, is getting iOS 12, but the oldest Sony (sorry to pick on you Sony) smartphone to get Android 9 Pie is the Xperia XZ Premium which was released just 16 months ago.
https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_xz_premium_with_android_90_pie_spotted_at_antutu-news-33224.php
will19565
LSG501
CAT-THE-FIFTH
$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!
but that essentially 720p display is liquid retina…
Also got to laugh how Apple used to go on about fragmentation on Android yet they now have about 6 different resolutions not to mention different screen ratio's on just their iPhones…
funny how the iPhone 5s, released back in 2013, is getting iOS 12, but the oldest Sony (sorry to pick on you Sony) smartphone to get Android 9 Pie is the Xperia XZ Premium which was released just 16 months ago.
https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_xz_premium_with_android_90_pie_spotted_at_antutu-news-33224.php
Even funnier how that iPhone 5S will then run like a dog, “necessitating” the purchase of a new model. Luckily, Apple got you covered…
I like the look of the new hardware but its still way to expensive and i have no interest in the Apple ecosystem, i just do not like the way Apple do things.
Clever marketing, the use of words such as “neural” and “bionic” which give the impression of intelligence and being better. Of course your not that intelligent if you actually fall for the bull****.
Clever as well how the top line phones are first introduced so that the XR then looks relatively less expensive. Of course your not very clever if you think that $750 dollars is not expensive for the specs of the phone.
I can remember when it was touted that bezels were necessary on hand held device so your fingers did not touch the display unwaringly and yet there is no tablet that is edge to edge on all four sides which i would assume is actually down to the engineering strengthwise.
How long will it be before the first phone arrives with a 7" display and thus into tablet territory. Still remember those spoofs of folk with iPads to their ear and shouting a call and here we are on the verge of it being for real.
Myss_tree
your not that intelligent if you actually fall for the bull****.
Oh the irony…. :P
Apple's drying out on the innovation front. All I saw was a hospital grade heart rate monitor with ECG and other functionality. Yes that's nice to have but that's not what I want a new watch for.
Rather than having new tech that I'd actually want to upgrade my existing model, all I saw was same screen, new colour and higher pricing. I'm out…
azrael-
Even funnier how that iPhone 5S will then run like a dog, “necessitating” the purchase of a new model. Luckily, Apple got you covered…
As a 5S user luckily Huawei and honor have me covered
Nice upgrade from the X, on paper the screen should be amazing, bonkers CPU as well, Was hoping they Xs would be £100 cheaper and the Xs Max would be at £999, oh well.
Only other annoyance for me other than the price not being what I wanted is they are removing the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter from the devices.
The price drops on the 8 and 8 plus will make for really good mid-range phones, in most benchmarks these two devices still come out on top against nearly all phones currently on the market anyhow.
I am on the upgrade program, tempted by the Xs Max, will wait for reviews and check it out in the flesh in a few weeks.
Platinum
Nice upgrade from the X, on paper the screen should be amazing, bonkers CPU as well, Was hoping they Xs would be £100 cheaper and the Xs Max would be at £999, oh well.
Only other annoyance for me other than the price not being what I wanted is they are removing the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter from the devices.
The price drops on the 8 and 8 plus will make for really good mid-range phones, in most benchmarks these two devices still come out on top against nearly all phones currently on the market anyhow.
I am on the upgrade program, tempted by the Xs Max, will wait for reviews and check it out in the flesh in a few weeks.
The absolute minimum price on their website for an 8 is £599. Is that really midrange?
I would put it mid to high end, looking at competitors premium tier seems to be around £800 - £1000.
Though this is the first of the “next-gen” phones, we will get a better idea of what the new upper limit is when Google release the Pixel and Samsung the new S series early next year.
Its a shame the rumoured SE upgrade never happened, I know a few people who would have jumped on that.
Good phones, but the prices are getting a little crazy. I'm more than happy with my 7, for a good while yet.
For me the scale would be :
Budget < £200
Low end £200 - £400
Mid range £400 - £600
High end £600 - £800
Flagship / Ultra high end / Luxury £800 - ????
Hoonigan
So if mid-range is £400 or less, that means high end is £401+, all the way up to £1099. Where does mid-range end and low-end begin?
Seems like a top-heavy scale.
It isn't really - that has been accepted midrange for years now - lower end is under £200. Just because Apple and Samsung want to push up prices more and more,to make £400 look like low end territory is not my problem especially when Chinese companies are making phones with ridiculous specs for under £400.
Plus as with most products,high end and luxury products have a much bigger pricing variation,and if you look at “mainstream” markets you would understand why they are more constrained.
Just because Fiat has a Ferrari brand which makes £500000 cars,does not mean that a £40000 Fiat is suddenly a “ultra low end” car. Just because there are £30000 medium format digital cameras,does not make a £3300 D850 “ultra low end”. I have listened to £10000 headphones before - just because they exist does not make a £2000 one “low end”.
Its the same with graphics cards - companies like JPR and Mercury Research define anything over $250 to $300 as enthusiast class.
These are firms used by both AMD and Nvidia. That is the OFFICIAL definition supported by AMD and Nvidia.
Yet,last time I checked a Titan V cost a few times more than that.
The original iPhones were $499 to $599 devices. So what you are seeing is newer higher end tiers.
So instead of just one “high end” you are seeing the following:
1.)lower high end - iPhone 7
2.)High end - iPhone 8
3.)Lower luxury tier - iPhone Xr
4.)Mid luxury tier - iPhone Xs
5.)Top end luxury tier - iPhone Xs Max
The iPhone X and similar priced phones are now the equivalent of what Titan series graphics cards were for Nvidia.
Platinum
For me the scale would be :
Budget < £200
Low end £200 - £400
Mid range £400 - £600
High end £600 - £800
Flagship / Ultra high end / Luxury £800 - ????
A massively warped scale. If you think £400 is low end then the marketing has worked wonders and is not supported by cars,hifi or anything else like cameras.
If BMW has a £500000 supercar,it does not make a £30000 to £40000 car suddenly ultra low end.
The average price of a car depending on size varies between £10000 to £24000. That is the mainstream market,not low end just because very expensive cars exist.
Technology companies are getting crazy with prices lately. And the worst part is that demand is still strong, no matter what the price is. People just can't resist having the latest smartphone, watch or graphics card.
Oh,also looking at average selling prices is pointless too since it distorts what the market looks like.
I give you a prime example - if you are selling 5000 $200 phones,and 1000 $1000 phones,you come to an average selling price of $333,yet 80% of sales are at $200,ie,that is the mainstream market.
Edit!!
Another site seems to consider £400 and under midrange:
https://www.choose.co.uk/guide/best-midrange-smartphone-top-five.htmlThe Guardian seems to think £250 to £500 for the midrange.
Techadvisor seems to think £200 to under £500.
ksdp37
Apple's drying out on the innovation front. All I saw was a hospital grade heart rate monitor with ECG and other functionality. Yes that's nice to have but that's not what I want a new watch for.
Rather than having new tech that I'd actually want to upgrade my existing model, all I saw was same screen, new colour and higher pricing. I'm out…
Could be handy for those with heart issues or perhaps conditions like Epilepsy?
The ECG for me was the big thing, very useful to a lot of people, if smartwatches keep adding in more and more health monitoring functionality I can only see it as a good thing.
will19565
funny how the iPhone 5s, released back in 2013, is getting iOS 12, but the oldest Sony (sorry to pick on you Sony) smartphone to get Android 9 Pie is the Xperia XZ Premium which was released just 16 months ago.
https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_xz_premium_with_android_90_pie_spotted_at_antutu-news-33224.php
Well considering that isn't an Android issue but a Sony (and possibly qualcomm, as I believe they only support ‘drivers’ for 2 years iirc) issue it's kind of a comical reply, especially considering that 5S will likely get a speed nerf for ‘battery reasons’ lol.
The latest OS is out there for all companies who wish to use it, the manufacturers don't seem interested in upgrading the OS, which to be fair is sometimes down to the mobile phone hardware companies not updating their ‘drivers’. It's also a different sales model, companies selling android phones make profit from the phone, google get any sales from the store etc, so unlike Apple they want a turn around on phones, not that having an earlier model of the OS is actually going to hurt, I can do everything I can do on a new nokia 3.1 on my old moto g (original one) albeit a little slower, but then it is at least 5 years old…
Since when iteration is called revolutionary?
Price-wise, we (as consumers) are guilty for those high prices.
People just go and buy top end phone, even though they gonna use only 5% of its capacity. But they can show off and be “a la mode”.
XS Max is the phone equivalent of Biggie Smalls.
Illogical.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
It isn't really - that has been accepted midrange for years now
I don't want to just slam you down, but in that lies the problem. Phone prices increase so much each year that a once accepted pricing structure no longer applies. The brackets change each year.
LSG501
Well considering that isn't an Android issue but a Sony (and possibly qualcomm, as I believe they only support ‘drivers’ for 2 years iirc) issue it's kind of a comical reply, especially considering that 5S will likely get a speed nerf for ‘battery reasons’ lol.
The latest OS is out there for all companies who wish to use it, the manufacturers don't seem interested in upgrading the OS, which to be fair is sometimes down to the mobile phone hardware companies not updating their ‘drivers’. It's also a different sales model, companies selling android phones make profit from the phone, google get any sales from the store etc, so unlike Apple they want a turn around on phones, not that having an earlier model of the OS is actually going to hurt, I can do everything I can do on a new nokia 3.1 on my old moto g (original one) albeit a little slower, but then it is at least 5 years old…
The whole OS update thing on Android is a bit of a mess though, isn't it?
According to Google's own data from the link below, less than 15% of handsets have been upgraded to Oreo as @ 31/8/18 (i.e. a year after it was released). That's a joke.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/android-distribution-news/
Hoonigan
I don't want to just slam you down, but in that lies the problem. Phone prices increase so much each year that a once accepted pricing structure no longer applies. The brackets change each year.
It isn't a problem - your viewpoint is. Cars,hifi, cameras all have expensive top end stuff.
So just because some companies are arbitrarily trying to jack up prices means not much at all unless you live in some communist state where you only have one phone to choose from.
Does a Chiron have an effect on the price of your Golf??
Just because there are higher tier products there is no reason(outside trying to milk consumers) for the pricing to have to increase for mainstream/midrange and low end/budget products.
Leica makes luxury cameras,Phase One makes expensive digital backs and so on,yet this really has no impact on someone buying a D3500.
Just because Fiat has cars costing £100s of 1000s under its Ferrari brand means nothing to the average car buyer.
The average car price is a fraction of that.
People should know better not to blindly accept companies tacking on more levels. Companies will always try that tactic and why wouldn't they??
The fact is trying to say a £400 phone is low end is people loosing a bit of perspective.
Plus midrange and low end markets are more price sensitive which anyone would realise since they are mass market. Applies to everything.
After all people here moaned just because Marmite went up a few pence. Also using absurd logic if the cheapest iPhone became £1000,a low end phone is now £999 and under??
Really??
Plus you are totally seemed to ignoring the revolution which is happening at the cheaper end of the market too.
Both Zak33 and MLyons on here have made comments on such phones and me too. Their rise has been monumental.
Anyway,I had enough about argueing about price levels. You can either agree with the assessment or not.
Well my view is I don't like android last iphone I had was 3gs then went to android had 2 sony and 2 nexus devices both nexus devices boot looped I went with nexus due frequent update. Then google decided they were going high end and pixles cost north of $600 so if I'm going to pay that much I'll just go with apple.
I wanted out of google eco system i use duckduckgo. google as an advertising company collect way more data than I feel comfortable with. Apple at least at the moment appear to be slightly less evil on that front.
Crazy prices and almost no innovation to speak of. I agree with CAT here in that anything above £400 is expensive for a phone imo especially when you can get flagship specs for around that price.
Zhaoman
Crazy prices and almost no innovation to speak of. I agree with CAT here in that anything above £400 is expensive for a phone imo especially when you can get flagship specs for around that price.
Well I would say less now if you want a higher end SOC - the Xiaomi F1 is 300 Euro,and has a SD845,64GB of storage and 6GB of RAM,240FPS 1080p,etc.
Even putting that to a side,I cannot even understand how a £400 phone is considered low end,just because Apple/Samsung decided to jack up prices of their top end in the last two years.
Although having said that this is the interwebs and a tech forum - I suspect anyone having a GTX1060/RX580 is considered low end by many due to £1000 to £3000 Titan class cards,even if Nvidia/AMD considered them performance/mainstream and the marketshare figures support this.
Ballantin
Technology companies are getting crazy with prices lately. And the worst part is that demand is still strong, no matter what the price is. People just can't resist having the latest smartphone, watch or graphics card.
Am not so sure. The media hype may say people want all this high end stuff but real life would indicate different.
Amongst my circle of family, friends and work colleagues there is not one with an iPhone X or a top of the range Android phone. My phone is the newest and its a One Plus 3T.
None of them wear a smartwatch and none of them would have a clue as to what a Vega or 2080 graphics card was.
Whenever i mention latest tech, within about 20 seconds i see most of them have their eyes glazing over, all most folk want is a phone that makes calls and texts, check a bit of social media and perhaps take the odd photo, a watch that tells the time and a computer that does the basics.
azrael-
Even funnier how that iPhone 5S will then run like a dog, “necessitating” the purchase of a new model.
Well, according to users beta testing iOS 12 on the 5S, that really isn't the case. Google is your friend here.
However with that said, what the hell with the pricing on these. Incremental changes do not justify that pricing, like Nvidia it isn't defensible.
Iota
However with that said, what the hell with the pricing on these. Incremental changes do not justify that pricing, like Nvidia it isn't defensible.
Apparently it is defensible. I learnt today £400 is low end phone territory so £1000 is totally normal everyday Tesco value pricing!! :laugh:
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Apparently it is defensible. I learnt today £400 is low end phone territory so £1000 is totally normal everyday Tesco value pricing!! :laugh:
£400 is low end phone territory? Well bugger…. still, on the plus side I suppose I could get a sim free iPhone X for about £800 or less now.
Iota
£400 is low end phone territory? Well bugger…. still, on the plus side I suppose I could get a sim free iPhone X for about £800 or less now.
I need to invent a new tier for the phones I use - Abacus level. Sounds about right!! :p
Edit!!
Cat's new phone tier pricing:
1.)sub £100 - spud level
2.)£100 to £300- Abacus level
3.)£300 to £450 - Etch a Sketch level
4.)£450 to £600 - low end,aka,unlabelled tinned food level
5.)£600 to £750- lower mainstream,aka,Netto level
6.)£750 to £1000 - middle mainstream,aka,Tesco Value pricing
7.)£1000 to £1400 - high end mainstream,aka,Tesco “Extra Special”
8.)£1400 and over - higher end,aka,Waitrose level
CAT-THE-FIFTH
I need to invent a new tier for the phones I use - Abacus level. Sounds about right!! :p
Edit!!
Cat's new phone tier pricing:
1.)sub £100 - spud level
2.)£100 to £300- Abacus level
3.)£300 to £450 - Etch a Sketch level
4.)£450 to £600 - low end,aka,unlabelled tinned food level
5.)£600 to £750- lower mainstream,aka,Netto level
6.)£750 to £1000 - middle mainstream,aka,Tesco Value pricing
7.)£1000 to £1400 - high end mainstream,aka,Tesco “Extra Special”
8.)£1400 and over - higher end,aka,Waitrose level
Nothing wrong with “spud level” phones for some scenarios.
Iota
Nothing wrong with “spud level” phones for some scenarios.
There is a lot of display issues on spud level phones,there is only so many times you can etch pretend text messages into the potato!! :(
CAT, has it ever occurred to you that you're sometimes wrong? Or perhaps there's more than one answer to the same question? Asking for a friend.
Hoonigan
CAT, has it ever occurred to you that you're sometimes wrong? Or perhaps there's more than one answer to the same question? Asking for a friend.
What wrong?? YOU and the other chap are trying to rejig pricing tiers.
I showed you 4 different review sites from the tech industry which showed midrange was between £200 to £500,so now because you didn't get the answer you wanted you are trying to argue with me - if you and your mate have an issue with that definition then go and write to those websites which I pointed to which are:
1.)
https://www.pocket-lint.com/2.)
https://www.choose.co.uk/3.)
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/4.)
https://www.theguardian.com/ukAlso,add Which to that:
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/mobile-phones/article/top-five-best-mid-range-mobile-phonesAs you can see from the chart above, mid-range handsets (which we've defined as costing between £200 and £400) aren't that far off their more expensive cousins when it comes to performance in our labs for key features, including battery life, camera quality and performance. But how do they fare overall?
Expertreviews:
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/mobile-phones/1406747/best-android-phoneMost flagship phones (which tend to cost upwards of £450) will be more than satisfactory in all areas, but cheaper devices may come with various compromises. You can boil the key considerations down to five key questions.
So 6 well known techsites which seem to agree £200 to £450/£500 is defined as midrange and above that is high end. If you have an issue write letters of complaint to them and say they need to correct their 2017/2018 articles. I am going by their figures.
Yet you and your mates are determined to push the fact that £400 are low end. I find it atrocious you are trying trying to make £1000+ phones look normal pricing by attempting to make £400 phones look low end or budget.
It seems you are more worried by what companies are trying to push,than standing back and looking at things through a consumer viewpoint.
If you want to buy your £1000 phone then do it - but don't try to force that on us,trying to make it look like £400 is “low end” phone money.
Plus your mate might actually want to investigate the phone market a lot - two people employed on Hexus here have talked about some of the up and coming companies many times,and that should tell you something.
Or is it like tech forums who probably think a GTX1060/RX580 is “low end” too since everyone must have a Titan or 80TI card on their 4K monitor??
RTX2080TI 10/10 for value then?? Le sigh.
Lets have a look at some more market research then:
https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prEMEA44227118IDC 22nd August 2018
The EMEA mobile phone market continues to lose steam, according to the latest results from the International Data Corporation (IDC) Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker.
Total smartphone shipments in the total European market including Russia and the CIS were marginally lower than in the same quarter last year, at 44.9 million.
In the core European Union market the picture was less promising. Most countries in Western Europe saw lower smartphone value than in the same quarter of 2017, though the picture was mixed, as France and Italy showed an increase, and in Central Europe there was a continuing trend towards more expensive models and every country showed an increase in market value.
Overall, European Union average selling prices fell more than 10% year-on-year, and the recent trend towards the purchase of more expensive models was reversed.
In the Middle East and Africa there were also signs of price weakness. Smartphone volumes in the region were flat at 38.395 million, while the average selling price was $212, substantially lower than the $242 in the first quarter of the year. The feature phone market, traditionally very substantial in the region, slowed, and the feature phone/smartphone split in the market was almost half and half.
“Though just one quarter of a lower ASP may be too short a period to judge the long term-trend, especially as there was some weakness of the euro against the dollar across the quarter, vendors will be concerned that the recent ramp-up in Android smartphone prices in particular may be over,” said Simon Baker, program director for mobile devices in IDC EMEA.
In Europe, Huawei had a very good quarter and its P20 series, both the keenly priced P20 Lite and the premium P20 Pro did well alongside the standard model. Its strong performance brought it head to head with the Samsung Galaxy S9, which as the Samsung flagship would normally be expected to be way out in front in the premium Android category. While the P20 Pro goes for a similar price to the S9, the Lite version is less than half this.
Prices are also falling due to the impact of Xiaomi, which is moving quickly into Western Europe markets after successes in Poland and especially in Russia. Xiaomi sold six times as many phones in the EU in the second quarter than in the same quarter in the year before. Its smartphone ASP is much lower than the market average.
One brighter point for manufacturers was that European consumers are moving quickly to embrace wider screens. “This is a reflection of how much video they are now watching on their devices,” said Baker.
“Nearly all Android smartphones sold in the European Union were 16:9 aspect ratio a year ago, but by this last quarter that had dropped to just over half. The categories growing fast are 18:9 and 18.5:9, with ever-wider, narrower screens up to 19.5:9 ratios appearing on some models.”
“One implication of this is that what used to be called the phablet category is finding a new lease on life,” said Marta Pinto, senior research analyst at IDC EMEA. “The new Samsung Note 9, for instance, is 18.5:9 ratio. Phablets have not found a wide following in EMEA because the width of the device has made it difficult for many people to hold it easily in one hand. The newer big widescreen phones are narrower and for this reason may find a bigger user base than the old style phablets.”
The trend is a breath of fresh air for smartphone vendors worried about flagging demand as smartphone technologies mature. A wider aspect screen can normally be fitted onto the body of an existing phone without a major redesign, providing a new product without major investment.
“IDC expects that there will be a rapid transition to wider form factors across most of the Android model range this year, not just with premium phones,” said Pinto.
So in Europe,the prices are overall falling - people are spending less overall. Chinese companies are coming in and causing price competition - a few on here said this was happening, including those who even pointed out to me and others what some of those companies were offering.
Plus this is the other kicker,the ASP of phones in Europe is between $350 to $450,ie,which is firmly below £400.
That is an average of both the high end sales and lower end sales,and when a high end phone can be upto 5 times more expensive than a lower midrange phone,then one has to ask,what are the actual volumes in each segment??
So take all those Apple sales out,and then see how most of the market lies at.
Don't worry if Apple and Samsung release a £2000 phones all the smartphone superfans will say £1000 phones are budget territory.
Rollo,you were 10 years too early!! :P
Edit!!
El Reg also makes a comment too:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/09/canalys_phone_fatigue_q1/9 May 2018
Personal Tech
Peak smartphone? Phone fatigue hits Western Europe hard
♫ We're so bored with your USP ♫
By Andrew Orlowski 9 May 2018 at 16:31
52 Reg comments SHARE ▼
Airplane crash - pic by shutterstock
Smartmobe shipments were down almost 7 per cent year-on-year in Europe during calendar Q1, according to Canalys, as phone fatigue hit mature markets hard.
Some 46 million units in total were shipped in the three months, this included a 13 per cent drop in Western Europe to 30.1 million phones and a 12.9 per cent rise in Central and Eastern Europe to 15.9 million.
Punters in the West continued to cling onto their devices for longer and chose more SIM-only deals, plus more shoppers opted for refurbished models.
Canalys said the two biggest losers year-on-year were Samsung and Apple. Sammy's shipments fell 15.4 per cent across Europe to 15.2 million units, and Apple's sales fell 5.1 per cent to 10.2 million units, despite having a broader range than ever that includes the iPhone SE.
The big winners? Huawei, with shipments 38.6 per cent up to 7.4 million, thanks to its Honor line, and … <drumroll, stamping of elks hooves> Nokia. Nokia moved 1.6 million phones in Q1, reckons Canalys, placing it in the top five. This confirmed positive estimates from Counterpoint in January, which pegged Nokia at number three in the UK in Q4.
Recent Apple earnings indicate that higher prices have compensated for fewer iPhone Xs sold. Samsung too is seeing the financial benefits of higher prices – Canalys estimated the value of its shipments has risen 20 per cent.
UK sales fell 29.6 per cent on the prior year period, France was down 23.2 per cent and Germany by 16.7 per cent. In the UK SIM-only (SIMO) deals are now more popular than contracts that bundle a handset with “airtime”, as it’s still called, quaintly.
But if the problem is a slower purchase cycle, then the top-tier vendors risk making things worse by making their flagships ever more expensive. It simply prompts many to defer a purchase. Call it a “runaway contagion”, if you like.
Ben Stanton, Canalys researcher, told us the UK market reached a “saturation” point and a lack of innovation from phone makers meant consumers weren't tempted to buy the latest generation models. ®
Huawei,is now the second largest maker of smartphones and that has obviously nothing to do with pricing at all,since the internet told me pricing isn't important! ;)
Second Edit!!
An interview with the CEO of OnePlus this year yielded additional info:
https://nordic.businessinsider.com/meet-the-28-year-old-swedish-college-dropout-who-created-the-best-smartphone-in-the-world-id-rather-not-be-compared-to-apple-at-all–/In Europe, the average smartphone costs 200 euros, so we’re in fact part of the higher end flagship market.
So that is a hint at what level of price we are seeing with the mass market if you take out higher end phones. The One Plus 6 costs just under £500. So One Plus considers over £400 high end. Seeing a pattern here??
Wowthisescalatedquickly.meme
I need to set up my stall for ACME handbags and then put you two back to back at high noon.
And although you've proven yourself right, you are now being a bit of a donkey :)
Tabbykatze
Wowthisescalatedquickly.meme
I need to set up my stall for ACME handbags and then put you two back to back at high noon.
And although you've proven yourself right, you are now being a bit of a Moose:)
Get the animal right?? :p Also TBH,this is a stupid argument anyway - I went by figures quoted by 6 tech sites,figures gleamed from market research places,the CEO of One Plus and its all pointing to the same tiers of pricing. This is what literally everyone else is saying - I could understand if I defined the range,but as you can see I am just quoting what the tech industry regards as midrange,and I at least tried not to quote global figures,which are on average lower. Its possible they are all wrong,but I am bored looking at articles about smartphone pricing now. I will stick to Abacus level or Etch a Sketch level if the Moose manages to win a race! ;)
will19565
LSG501
CAT-THE-FIFTH
$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!
funny how the iPhone 5s, released back in 2013, is getting iOS 12, but the oldest Sony (sorry to pick on you Sony) smartphone to get Android 9 Pie is the Xperia XZ Premium which was released just 16 months ago.
https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_xz_premium_with_android_90_pie_spotted_at_antutu-news-33224.php
Funny how my 2013 Android can still do so much more than any iPhone, including what was only just announced yesterday, can do. Micro-SD card, replaceable battery, FM Radio, FM Radio recording, 3.5mm jack (which can work as the trigger my selfie stick, or external LED light trigger, or external condenser audio recording mic),
Funny how my 2014 Android LG G3 has 3GB RAM and higher resolution QHD screen than the “$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!”.
Funny how I can still flash the latest Android ROMs on both phones because I have rooted them. Funny how they still work as good as new once I slap in a new battery.
Funny how your CrApple would be barely working by now with that degraded sealed internal battery. Funny how you actually think that your 2013 crapple can run iOS 12 - without at least being severely crippled feature wise, like all old iPhones which would work like a tortoise if not hang
Crap! What fugly overpriced crap! Look at the HUGE NOTCH still! Its basically recycled, AGAIN, from yesteryear's parts bin because they are dirt cheap components by now. Same thing with the 3GB RAM from the trash bin which my 2014 flagship LG G3 had.
American consumers are so stupid. Like the Donald Trump that they voted in. Because they never get to see the best phones that the world has to offer, like Chinese Androids, they think that the fruit company is the best there is. The fable of the “Frog in the Well” springs to mind - like frogs looking up towards the sky and thinking that's all there is to the world. Forget the Koreans or the Japs, look at where the real innovations are coming from.
There are already so many truly BEZEL-LESS phones for quite a while - all coming from Chinese companies. Vivo NEX and Oppo Find X have been exported for sale in my country for a while. Xiaomi Mi Mix 3 has been announced. These all have retractable front or even rear cameras for the maximum screen estate and minimum phone dimensions.
Yet the American brands like Apple (& even Google Pixel) are still releasing phones with huge ass notches. Really?! Even Samsung phones still have relatively huge bezels.
Irony? Apple shamelessly dares to talk about bezels “making a difference” in one of the slides still!
Even when notches are preferred compared to sliding mechanisms, Chinese brands have already innovated with teardrop notches on the displays - cue Oppo's F9.
Its bad enough that many Chinese brands, like Xiaomi, don't bother to export their innovative phones to the US. Even when they want to, like Huawei and ZTE, Trump and the rest of the xenophonic/racist Americans still deign to ban/block their sale on the carriers. For that, Americans will remain the ignorant, blinkered and stupid consumers that they are. That is how societies regress, stagnate and die. Tsk tsk.
This isn't quite as simple as first thought though. Companies have to make a profit and they see fit to charge what they believe the consumers will pay - and that has always been the way. We are currently in the middle of something that will cause our currency to fluctuate wildly and manufacturers have to build that into prices as well because the vast majority of people have a subsidy or a form of credit in place when they buy a new phone. Even a PAYG phone is subsidised by you having to top it up at an inflated price over the age of the handset, and of course a contract phone is the same. So they have to build in a bit of leeway price wise and it is always upwards (you can't sell a phone at a loss over say 2 years). This blurs the lines a bit, and of course most of the prices are set in dollars and we're not actually doing that well against the dollar currently…
But - yes they will charge what they can get away with. And do!
Galaxy S9 here - pleased with it, is still the phone I would have now if it was upgrade time. Did I pay too much and do I pay too much? Yes probably. But I'm paying less than I did for an S7 that had a cracked screen (first one ever) and it is quite a step up in many ways. Do I think it'svalue for money? Not all the time but I had a good look around and decided it was what I wanted… so I'm happy
Amazing - two pages of rant over phones!
There are phones that are are available at all price ranges, with different capabilities. True, the choice is limited if you don’t want Android based phones, but at the end of the day it is consumer choice.
I had never heard of Vivo and never seen an Oppo phone until I went on holiday and saw them in shops. I was actually impressed on the look and feel of the phones compared to what we get here in those price ranges.Even the Huawei phones are better specced in other markets too and you get things like dual SIM trays with an mSD card slot unlike many phones here which here which have hybrid trays. I mean there were even Huawei phones with 6" 2160x1080 18:9 displays,dual front and rear cameras,4GB of RAM,64GB storage,mSD card slots,dual SIM trays,4000mAH,etc for well under £200. I then actually used a Xiaomi and was like crikey…and a few here talked about them too.
It actually made me realise how little choice we have here and why a number here kept on saying they were importing XYZ phone years ago - these incumbant phone companies are literally taking us to the cleaners and have locked themselves into carriers so much it's hard for other companies to break through.
I honestly didn't realise how stale the market has gotten over here especially when it comes to Android phones.
I really wish there was a proper alternative to Android and iOS too. Either is a compromise in some way IMHO.
peterb
Amazing - two pages of rant over phones!
There are phones that are are available at all price ranges, with different capabilities. True, the choice is limited if you don’t want Android based phones, but at the end of the day it is consumer choice.
This, I also think Expensive is a relative term, we all earn different wages and have different amounts of disposable income, it all comes down to what you can afford, what you want and what you can justify.
Buy whatever makes you happy tbh.
I am still perplexed why people are trying to redefine well established pricing tiers though just based on high end/elite tier phones though even though it was confirmed by 6 different UK tech and consumer sites,market research and even the CEO of One Plus.
It's one of the weirdest arguments I have seen this year on a tech forum - it's like Ford basing the pricing of its mainstream cars like the Fiesta based on what a GT40 costs,or the price of Tesco value beer bring based on what
Brewdog End of History costs. .
I would love to see the response if someone suggested that a Focus should cost 50% more due to a new GT40 being released.
@CAT-THE-FIFTH
Please cease, you're looking obsessed. Just because some websites back up your ideas, does not mean it is absolutely 100% concrete evidence. Pricing structures are capable of being somewhat of an opinion.
Let's just leave it, yeah?
Platinum
This, I also think Expensive is a relative term, we all earn different wages and have different amounts of disposable income, it all comes down to what you can afford, what you want and what you can justify.
Buy whatever makes you happy tbh.
I think as a society we have an idea. I think my hobby of flying is expensive no matter how much my income level has changed.
If you are honestly suggesting that £400 is mid range, you are nuts when you consider the vast majority of phone sales are under that price point.
Hell I was happily using a £120 temporary phone for a few months after my good phone got nicked.
Now if we ignore prices, and choose features I don't think we can call them anything but mid range in terms of the specs offered sure.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
I would love to see the response if someone suggested that a Focus should cost 50% more due to a new GT40 being released.
The response would be that those that couldn't/wouldn't pay for it would go for a cheaper model or another make.
Phone prices increase so much each year that a once accepted pricing structure no longer applies. The brackets change each year.
peterb
The response would be that those that couldn't/wouldn't pay for it would go for a cheaper model or another make.
I said IF SOMEONE(not FORD) suggested that GT40 pricing had an impact on Focus or Mondeo pricing.
So according to experts on Hexus supercars now determine the price of a Punto,or Focus or something like that,just like a £1000 Apple or Samsung phone now determines what mainstream prices are. Wow.
The response would be the person making the suggestion has an interesting “argument” and that a GT40 has no say on what Focus or Mondeo man pays.
Its weird internet logic where people have some idea that just because Ford releases a GT40 that the prices of budget and mainstream cars need to go up to compensate,and I know exactly why this is and its happened many other times with other tech stuff too. It ONLY happens with computery stuff on tech forums - I have not seen these arguments for anything else.
TheAnimus
I think as a society we have an idea. I think my hobby of flying is expensive no matter how much my income level has changed.
If you are honestly suggesting that £400 is mid range, you are nuts when you consider the vast majority of phone sales are under that price point.
Hell I was happily using a £120 temporary phone for a few months after my good phone got nicked.
Now if we ignore prices, and choose features I don't think we can call them anything but mid range in terms of the specs offered sure.
But you can see how some on this very thread are trying their best to reclassify £400 phones as “low end” so to make their £1000 phone purchase seem more palatable.
I have had two of my mates go and read this thread going LOLWTF at the whole concept.
Look at Bsodmike - he is utterly rich and he buys £10000 to £20000 watches on here,which are works of art. Yet,I have never seen him once suggest those watches impact the pricing of someone buying a bog standard Seiko,Citizen,etc.
Nobody is stopping people buying the luxury priced phones and feeling happiness.,but what gets my Moose,is when they act like a dog in the manger,and try to add 50% to mainstream and budget markets and try to spread that propaganda on the internet,and screwing everyone else over in the process. Its almost like some weird anti-consumerism happening.
Its like saying Wrangler jean prices need to be tied to the price of £5000 jeans,so need to move upto £1000 FFS.
If a midrange phone is in the £200 to £450 range ,that makes a £1000 to £1250 phone 3 to 5 times more expensive,by artificially telling themselves,its more like £600,its only twice that amount,so hence it all seems rather more palatable.
When certain people seem to ignore 6 large tech sites,market research firms,the CEO of One Plus and try to peddle the idea that £400 phones are low end and keep trying trying to beating the horse against what the market is telling them.
Remember what I am saying regarding the physical price ranges is not an opinion since I am quoting price ranges based on what tech sites,market research firms and even a phone company themselves are saying.
If people have an issue with them,they should write to them explaining why they should change pricing levels.
I'm not trying to justify any purchase to myself, I have the money I can afford a thing so ill buy it if I want it, I was just giving my opinion on where I thought the brackets were these days, I said I thought £200 - £400 was where I considered low end to be, the £400 part is the top end and by my thinking would also be classed as mid range, perhaps I should have said around £200 - £399 to be low end.
Its just a rough idea, and can depend on the brand, some brands such as one plus can put out higher-end hardware for a lower price.
Anyway, it seems to be a huge issue for you for some reason, do you need snickers?
CAT-THE-FIFTH
I said IF SOMEONE(not FORD) suggested that GT40 pricing had an impact on Focus or Mondeo pricing. If you seriously believe that,then just wow.
So according to experts on Hexus supercars now determine the price of a Punto,or Focus or something like that,just like a £1000 Apple or Samsung phone now determines what mainstream prices are. Wow.
The response would be the person making the suggestion has an interesting “argument” and that a GT40 has no say on what Focus or Mondeo man pays.
Its weird internet logic where people have some idea that just because Ford releases a GT40 that the prices of budget and mainstream cars need to go up to compensate,and I know exactly why this is and its happened many other times with other tech stuff too. It ONLY happens with computery stuff on tech forums - I have not seen these arguments for anything else.
But you can see how some on this very thread are trying their best to reclassify £400 phones as “low end” so to make their £1000 phone purchase seem more palatable.
Nobody is stopping them buying the phones and feeling happiness,but what gets my Moose,is when they act like a dog in the manger,and try to add 50% to mainstream and budget markets and try to spread that propaganda on the internet,and screwing everyone else over in the process.
Its like saying Wrangler jean prices need to be tied to the price of £5000 jeans,so need to move upto £1000 FFS.
If a midrange phone is in the £200 to £450 range ,that makes a £1000 to £1250 phone 3 to 5 times more expensive,by artificially telling themselves,its more like £600,its only twice that amount,so hence it all seems rather more palatble.
When certain people seem to ignore 6 large tech sites,market research firms,the CEO of One Plus and try to peddle the idea that £400 phones are low end and keep trying trying to beating the horse against what the market is telling them.
Remember what I am saying regarding the physical price ranges is not an opinion since I am quoting price ranges based on what tech sites,market research firms and even a phone company themselves are saying.
If people have an issue with them,they should write to them explaining why they should change pricing levels.
Sorry Cat - but you seem to be loosing the plot over this. No one here or any other forum can define a phone category with any real world effect. Pricing is defined by the seller - the consumer power is to respond as they see fit.
“High” and “low” end is a purely subjective opinion - you might define it by price, others might define it by appearance, or performance or features or screen size, or thickness, or the type of accessory connector!
Its a bit like people asking “What is the best <insert_device_of_choice>….?” without defining any criteria, such as speed, value for money or whatever. And value for money is a subjective matter anyway because it depends on what the individual values for his (or her) personal use!
Manufacturers may define high or low end by price - but there is no need to be taken in by that - make your own assessment on the criteria that are important to you.
peterb
Manufacturers may define high or low end by price - but there is no need to be taken in by that - make your own assessment on the criteria that are important to you.
Eh I disagree.
I think high and low are defined, surely they are something like the outer quartile ranges?
You can't call something mid, when it's in the highest quartile. That's not something that's subjective surely?
preter_s
Funny how my 2013 Android can still do so much more than any iPhone, including what was only just announced yesterday, can do. Micro-SD card, replaceable battery, FM Radio, FM Radio recording, 3.5mm jack (which can work as the trigger my selfie stick, or external LED light trigger, or external condenser audio recording mic),
Funny how my 2014 Android LG G3 has 3GB RAM and higher resolution QHD screen than the “$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!”.
Funny how I can still flash the latest Android ROMs on both phones because I have rooted them. Funny how they still work as good as new once I slap in a new battery.
Funny how your CrApple would be barely working by now with that degraded sealed internal battery. Funny how you actually think that your 2013 crapple can run iOS 12 - without at least being severely crippled feature wise, like all old iPhones which would work like a tortoise if not hang
LG L3 replacement battery £29.95
https://www.4lg.co.uk/search.pl?query=BL-53YHApple iphone7 replacement battery £25
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/iphone/repair/battery-powerJust saying… :)
Never needed to root a phone because it does exactly what I want out of the box - rooting compromises security and some security critical apps won't then run - but your choice of course - whatever floats your boat.
TheAnimus
Eh I disagree.
I think high and low are defined, surely they are something like the outer quartile ranges?
You can't call something mid, when it's in the highest quartile. That's not something that's subjective surely?
Quartile ranges of what? If it is distribution of price, you are just using one criterion.
And you are assuming a linear or standard or some other form of distribution distribution. I don't think the descriptions of low or high have even a nod towards any statistical distribution. It's marketing fluff.
peterb
Sorry Cat - but you seem to be loosing the plot over this. No one here or any other forum can define a phone category with any real world effect. Pricing is defined by the seller - the consumer power is to respond as they see fit.
“High” and “low” end is a purely subjective opinion - you might define it by price, others might define it by appearance, or performance or features or screen size, or thickness, or the type of accessory connector!
Its a bit like people asking “What is the best <insert_device_of_choice>….?” without defining any criteria, such as speed, value for money or whatever. And value for money is a subjective matter anyway because it depends on what the individual values for his (or her) personal use!
Manufacturers may define high or low end by price - but there is no need to be taken in by that - make your own assessment on the criteria that are important to you.
No a few of YOU have lost the plot(when all else fails question the person not the argument),when trying to actively defend a £400 phone as being “low end” which is sadly is not backed by any evidence. I am quoting figures from the tech industry so basically you are trying your best to fight those,by trying to fight me - if you feel the tiers are unfair then go and complain to the tech industry.
I would rather trust the media's view than some posters on a forum who seem determined to sell a £400 phone as “low end”. That is their subjective viewpoint then.
Plus on top of this you know very well that high end cars don't determine the price of mainstream cars or budget ones,and yet you honestly think people don't see this.
This is evidence:
https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/buyers-guides/138137-which-is-the-best-mid-range-phone-under-400-top-mid-range-smartphones-to-buy£200 to £400.
https://www.choose.co.uk/guide/best-midrange-smartphone-top-five.htmlUnder £400
https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/test-centre/mobile-phone/best-mid-range-phone-3627209/£200 to £500
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/mobile-phones/article/top-five-best-mid-range-mobile-phonesUpto £400
https://www.gadgetmatch.com/best-midrange-smartphones-200-to-400-dollars/$200 to $400,ie,upto £375 with UK VAT
https://www.wired.com/story/best-cheap-phones/Upto $550,ie,£500 with VAT
https://thedroidguy.com/2018/07/5-best-mid-range-phone-in-2018-1087187Upto $400,ie,£375
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/mobile-phones/1406747/best-android-phoneUpto £450.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/0/best-android-smartphones-can-buy/£250 to £500.
Do you want me to find a few more US and UK tech sites??
Lets look at more of the propaganda being spread here:
That is the ASP of phone in 2017 in Western Europe INCLUDING £1000 phones.
The One Plus CEO said the ASP of a non-high end phone was 200 Euro.
They said they considered themselves high end,and their latest phone is nearly £500.
So that is 10 pieces of info hinting high end starts at £450 to £500 onwards.
Some of you really have done ZERO research and then and trying to tell me I have no clue, ignoring any evidence as “subjective” when most of the actual phone reviewing industry seems to be following a similar pricing tier.
I am still waiting for all the information saying that £400 is now low end.
In fact my mates reading this thread actually told me these people who kept on trying to imply £400 phones were low end,must be just taking the mickey for a laugh or something.
This is one of the most ridiculous arguments in the 13 years I have been on here.
TheAnimus
Eh I disagree.
I think high and low are defined, surely they are something like the outer quartile ranges?
You can't call something mid, when it's in the highest quartile. That's not something that's subjective surely?
No,only in the thread they are not defined - its well defined,by multiple US and UK websites,the CEO of One Plus,and market research firms.
Apparently this is less important than one or two blokes on a forum who now have determined,midrange now starts at 2 to 2.5X the lower end its actually defined at.
As per my last post, I would say £400 is more in the mid-range bracket, the numbers I posted were not be an and end all just an idea of where I see the rough boundaries.
You do seem to be getting very worked up about a trivial convo on the internet though, are you ok?
I don't need that “evidence” and I really don't have the time or inclination to trawl through those links. I don't by a device on any perception of what is high or low end - whatever that my be.
But the definition of whether a phone is high or low end is so insignificantly trivial, I'm amazed it has now spread over 4 pages - guess that is the internet for you and the power of the hype in the announcement in the original article.
I buy something that will do the job I want it to do for the price I can afford - whether its a phone, a domestic appliance or an item of dive kit. (actually, more so with dive kit as ultimately my life depends on it)
peterb
I don't need that “evidence” and I really don't have the time or inclination to trawl through those links. I don't by a device on any perception of what is high or low end - whatever that my be.
But the definition of whether a phone is high or low end is so insignificantly trivial, I'm amazed it has now spread over 4 pages - guess that is the internet for you and the power of the hype in the announcement in the original article.
I buy something that will do the job I want it to do for the price I can afford - whether its a phone, a domestic appliance or an item of dive kit. (actually, more so with dive kit as ultimately my life depends on it)
You entered half way through an argument where some people tried to define a £600 phone as midrange and £400 as low end. I pointed out midrange is defined under that price range,by most of the phone reviewing industry,and even phone companies themselves. Then the others could not let it go,so I responded and did more and more research. Despite that they still want to push the same thing they were saying before.
Then you entered half way into the argument trying to poo-poo what I said,and when its pointed that is not by definition by what is considered an established set of values for midrange,you now say “its not important” - well if that is the case why were you argueing in support of the people saying £600 phones were midrange and £400 were low end.
If some of you have an issue with said definitions instead of trying to attack me,then go and complain to the websites and phone industry. Its utterly hilarious that you are more worried about shooting the messenger than shooting the people who made the message.
Platinum
As per my last post, I would say £400 is more in the mid-range bracket, the numbers I posted were not be an and end all just an idea of where I see the rough boundaries.
You do seem to be getting very worked up about a trivial convo on the internet though, are you ok?
I don't have an issue with what you said,but Hoonigan going but,but you are wrong and yet he cannot back up a blasted thing he is saying.
He does this all the time - it was like with some RAM review here,which literally everyone thought was overpriced for what it is.
I pointed out there were better deals out there,and then he just tried to argue with me(not anyone else BTW who said the same),just because I pointed out the price needed to drop for it to be better value,especially when there were Sammy B-die chips for similar money. Then I saw his own review of the RAM and it said the price needed to drop.
So,basically he was arguing with me for the sake of it,and this is more of the same,and one of my mates suggested he was up to something. There were one or two other situations where he tried mocking me over something which I just let it pass.
I think I just need to ignore him TBH.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
If some of you have an issue with said definitions instead of trying to attack me,then go and complain to the websites and phone industry. Its utterly hilarious that you are more worried about shooting the messenger than shooting the people who made the message.
I'm not interested in shooting anyone. Neither am I attacking you - but I do question your obsession with what (to my mind) is a trivial issue.
I have no real problem with the pricing of a phone - if I don't think its worth the money - I won't buy it - that is the ultimate power I have as a consumer.
No-one is forcing me to buy it!
peterb
I'm not interested in shooting anyone. Neither am I attacking you - but I do question your obsession with what (to my mind) is a trivial issue.
I have no real problem with the pricing of a phone - if I don't think its worth the money - I won't buy it - that is the ultimate power I have as a consumer.
Peterb,those pricing tiers are not only defined by the review industry but by actual market research,and hence companies which offer a full range of products at every price-point tend to develop products for those markets.
If you look at the midrange pricing tiers defined in the UK,they are higher than say India for example. These are not as arbitary as you think,which you would know if have seen how companies use market research to do tiering.
Apple phones are not midrange - they are defined as high end products. The first iPhones started at $500 to $600 UPWARDS,which was high end pricing back then. You cannot use an iPhone as a determinant of what a midrange phone is,because the midrange and low end smartphone segments were pioneered by other companies,including those which make Android phones and they are price sensitive tiers. It took years for Android to really catch up to iOS,and still overtook it in marketshare since it was lower cost.
If people are going to poo-poo what the industry is saying,then say why they are wrong,instead of saying “its wrong” and that is why it is grating,and I honestly looked and looked at seeing if this year the pricing tiers had changed - they had not. At least then show some research towards it then.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Peterb,those pricing tiers are not only defined by the review industry but by actual market research,and hence companies which offer a full range of products at every price-point tend to develope products for those markets.
If you look at the midrange pricing tiers defined in the UK,they are higher than say India for example. These are not as arbitary as you think,which you would know if have seen how companies use market research to do tiering.
Apple phones are not midrange - they are defined as high end products. The first iPhones started at $500 to $600 UPWARDS,which was high end pricing back then. You cannot use an iPhone as a determinant of what a midrange phone is,because the midrange and low end smartphone segments were pioneered by other companies,including those which make Android phones.
If people are going to poo-poo what the industry is saying,then say why they are wrong,instead of saying “its wrong” and that is why it is grating,and I honestly looked and looked at seeing if this year the pricing tiers had changed - they had not. At least then show some research towards it then.
I don't use any determinant to determine what is high or low end.
I look for a device that meets my needs at a price I can afford. If others choose to define my purchase as high or low end, that's up to them - I don't have a problem with that (or really care) so long as they don't question
my choice, based on
my requirements.
peterb
I don't use any determinant to determine what is high or low end.
I look for a device that meets my needs at a price I can afford. If others choose to define my purchase as high or low end, that's up to them - I don't have a problem with that (or really care) so long as they don't question my choice, based on my requirements.
Sorry,I pointed out the pricing tiers based on establised industry sites and market research. Yet,I see deflection after deflection.
Some here then questioned this - remember THEY questioned what I said,and find it weird that you are more worried about trying to poo-poo my position than ask the same questions of theirs??
So you are busy defending them questioning what I said, and you seem to be giving them a free reign to make up tiers. Remember YOU are only questioning what I said,yet you don't want to actually go an question what they said. Funny that.
The fact is people were trying to rewrite established pricing tiers which have been used as metric by the review industry and market research companies(which phone companies do use) and they are on purpose trying to misinform people to what the actual tiers are.
People can argue all they want but it is utterly riduculous for people to suggest a tier which has started at $100(low end) is now a $400+ tier,or a $200 tier is now starting two to three times higher.
Edit!!
I am not going to continue this argument with you.
I have never seen people in a tech forum seem so resistant at the suggestion that sub £400 phones are midrange not low end.
Its like people are trying every trick in the book to obfuscate this despite loads of evidence,which is conveniently buried so people can push £400 as low end or not midrange.
Just wow. I think I should have taken my mates advice about this thread when he started reading it - he was right on the money,and told me to not bother.
I am firmly in the real world thanks, no bubble here.
Thing is CAT - I don't care what arbitrary tiers people choose - it is irrelevant to my buying choices! (and to be honest, I have far more important things to that concern me)
You seem to be making a very big mountain out of a trivially small molehill - and I am genuinely at a loss to understand why you are so exercised by it.
But if it bothers you that much - just walk away from it. :)
I don't want to just slam you down, but in that lies the problem. Phone prices increase so much each year that a once accepted pricing structure no longer applies. The brackets change each year.
peterb
Thing is CAT - I don't care what arbitrary tiers people choose - it is irrelevant to my buying choices!
You seem to be making a very big mountain out of a trivially small molehill - and I am genuinely at a loss to understand why you are so exercised by it.
But if it bothers you that much - just walk away from it. :)
Their not people on some forum who came up with the pricing,they are the whole mechanism which determines tiering of phones. Phones are developed to hit those pricing tiers,even down to the actual SOCs in the phones. They are designed to hit certain price-points.
The market research and review industries feed back into the phone companies,who then determine what is considered low end,mid range,etc. Why do you think midrange in India is lower than here,since the review industry and market research industry feeds it back to the phone companies.
Think about for a second - don't you think it is convenient that so many review sites,One Plus,etc seem to think once you hit £400 ~ £500(in the UK and US) you are hitting high end territory. Its not all done at random,its done for a reason.
People are making the wrong summation from luxury tier phones,saying “brackets have to change” - market research identified people who are willing to spend £1000 on a phone,but it has no bearing on what the low end or midrange is priced at,its not rocket science in anyway. Its another tier. Its easy to understand.
People can't just assume just because higher pricing tiers happen that other tiers need to change. I am utterly perplexed and bemused people cannot understand that simple concept and I think the only answer is to walk way.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Think about for a second - don't you think it is convenient that so many review sites,One Plus,etc seem to think once you hit £400 ~ £500(in the UK and US) you are hitting high end territory. Its not all done at random,its done for a reason.
No - what review sites think is “high or low end” is completely irrelevant to me - and I suspect to most reasonably intelligent people.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
People are making the wrong summation from luxury tier phones,saying “brackets have to change” - market research identified people who are willing to spend £1000 on a phone,but it has no bearing on what the low end or midrange is priced at,its not rocket science in anyway. Its anothe tier. Its easy to understand.
Which people? But even if they are saying that, then so what? They have an opinion and an agenda - usually generating clicks - and you have certainly fulfilled that aim for HEXUS)
CAT-THE-FIFTH
People can't just assume just because higher pricing tiers happen that other tiers need to change. I am utterly perplexed and bemused people cannot understand that simple concept and I think the only answer is to walk way.
People can assume what they want - its up to them - you neither have to agree nor disagree. But it really isn't a matter of life or death, or sufficiently important to get worked up about.
Its a bit like people referring to crapple or fandroids - it actually says more about the people making those types of comment than the people they are referring to.
Life is too short to get worked up about whether a phone is high or low end!
Sounding like your typical Celtic and Rangers fans here.
At the end of the day, its all about choice. I went from Android to iPhone, why? Simply because I liked the phone and had X amount of my budget set aside for a phone. Could I afford it? Yes. So I bought it. Thats all it boils down to, preference. Like anything else in the world, the price is set by the manufacturer and we as the consumer have to pay for it.
peterb
No - what review sites think is “high or low end” is completely irrelevant to me - and I suspect to most reasonably intelligent people.
Which people? But even if they are saying that, then so what? They have an opinion and an agenda - usually generating clicks - and you have certainly fulfilled that aim for HEXUS)
That was in this thread actually - so you agree they have an agenda. But that is the thing you say review sites are not important,yet people in this very thread are poo-pooing what like loads of websites and phone companies have defined as midrange and low end based on actual realworld research done by interviewing people by literally saying a low end phone was more like £400 or a midrange one which was £600.
That is between three to four times the defined minimum ranges for the tiers. Its like saying a £12000 Punto,is now £30000,just because you bought some Alfa for £100000.
peterb
People can assume what they want - its up to them - you neither have to agree nor disagree. But it really isn't a matter of life or death, or sufficiently important to get worked up about.
Its a bit like people referring to crapple or fandroids - it actually says more about the people making those types of comment than the people they are referring to.
Life is too short to get worked up about whether a phone is high or low end!
It does matter since Rollo came on here(and the behest of Nvidia) and started doing the same blasted upselling(which he did everywhere else). Him and his lot trawled forums,etc for years pushing that same narrative to the extent people are literally repeating the same stuff years later,and its been done by companies to upsell price increases. It was done on many US forums where people started upselling stuff too. Its bloody mental when people are justifying massive price increases in established tiers of products,just based on some luxury tier release.
That affects literally everyone I know.
Macman
Sounding like your typical Celtic and Rangers fans here.
At the end of the day, its all about choice. I went from Android to iPhone, why? Simply because I liked the phone and had X amount of my budget set aside for a phone. Could I afford it? Yes. So I bought it. Thats all it boils down to, preference. Like anything else in the world, the price is set by the manufacturer and we as the consumer have to pay for it.
Honestly if I was spending £1000 on a Phone I would rather have an iPhone over a Samsung since I consider Samsung as a company that makes good products but support,is variable in my view,just like with our TV which Samsung CBA to properly upgrade the HDR compatability with,ie,BBC HDR methods might have an issue.
What I do have an issue,is suddenly saying just because that luxury tier phones exist the lower end and midrange needs to increase in price too,which is a selfish dog in the manger attitude.
Why the heck should I have to spend £100s more on a phone just because someone buys a £1000+ one. I don't care if you buy one as long as you don't interfere with my end of the market,thank you very much.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Why the heck should I have to spend £100s more on a phone just because someone buys a £1000+ one. I don't care if you buy one as long as you don't interfere with my end of the market,thank you very much.
Unfortunately thats the way the world works I'm afraid and do yourself a favour, just drop your argument because your beginning to look obsessed.
I don't want to just slam you down, but in that lies the problem. Phone prices increase so much each year that a once accepted pricing structure no longer applies. The brackets change each year.
Macman
Unfortunately thats the way the world works I'm afraid and do yourself a favour, just drop your argument because your beginning to look obsessed.
No it doesn't work that way and that is the issue on tech forums now - I don't understand why people who want £1000+ phones,feel the need to then piddle on the parade of everyone by saying midrange and low end needs to increase in price?? Its a selfish dog in the manger attitude. Tech enthusiasts seem to be
obssessed with asking companies to increase prices - this was hardly the case 10 years ago. People like Rollo tried that and it didn't fly with most even here.
Is this some sort of price E-PEEN?? Two of mates who read this thread said they thought people were trolling when they were suggesting lower end and midrange price tiers had to increase and they were perplexed by it. I don't know anyone who buys a £300 phone suddenly wants it to cost £600.
Look in the real world - Ferrari owners don't expect Fiat Puntos to be £40000 just because their car cost £200000. I mean I have physically ordered £20000 Sony based cameras for a project I worked on years ago,and did that have an impact on someones dSLR prices?? It didn't.
I just don't understand the logic of justifying double or tripling the prices of tiers based on some random metric.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Why the heck should I have to spend £100s more on a phone just because someone buys a £1000+ one. I don't care if you buy one as long as you don't interfere with my end of the market,thank you very much.
You don't
http://www.argos.co.uk/product/7497850£70 - sim free
peterb
You don't http://www.argos.co.uk/product/7497850
£70 - sim free
That is the point you don't get,that chap was saying that the pricing tiers for such a phone needs to be more. So a current £200 midrange phone needed to be pushed upto £400 and so on.
So again why should midrange which is between £200 to £450ish,now need to start at £400 or even £600??
That by extension would mean low end phones would be pushed up by double to triple.
Not anyone in this thread has explained why that is required apart from:
I don't want to just slam you down, but in that lies the problem. Phone prices increase so much each year that a once accepted pricing structure no longer applies. The brackets change each year.
So explain to me that then??
Why do existing pricing structures need to change just because you have a £1000+ phone?
WHY??
Edit!!
Its no point - there will be no solid answer to that or any questioning of that quoted statement in anyway. You have more chance of getting a solid answer out of Jeremy Corbyn! :p
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Why do existing pricing structures need to change just because you have a £1000+ phone?
WHY??
Inflation? Exchange rates? Supply and demand? Marketing fluff? Any of those reasons could apply to altering the pricing structure and the established norms of what consumers are required to pay for a product.
However in your defence, I understand the point you are
trying in vain to make in regards to the more accurate pricing tiers being an established norm, and not some fictional pulled out of thin air figures. In that aspect you are correct and I agree that the pricing tiers and what actually defines a mid-range priced phone is already established (regardless of the actual specifications of the phones in that tier).
It isn't worth beating a dead horse over it though.
preter_s
Funny how my 2013 Android can still do so much more than any iPhone, including what was only just announced yesterday, can do. Micro-SD card, replaceable battery, FM Radio, FM Radio recording, 3.5mm jack (which can work as the trigger my selfie stick, or external LED light trigger, or external condenser audio recording mic),
Funny how my 2014 Android LG G3 has 3GB RAM and higher resolution QHD screen than the “$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!”.
Funny how I can still flash the latest Android ROMs on both phones because I have rooted them. Funny how they still work as good as new once I slap in a new battery.
Funny how your CrApple would be barely working by now with that degraded sealed internal battery. Funny how you actually think that your 2013 crapple can run iOS 12 - without at least being severely crippled feature wise, like all old iPhones which would work like a tortoise if not hang
Yes, it's funny how this works isn't it?
I've owned a Sony Xperia smartphone, with hardly any software side support and resorted to having to work out how to upgrade to newer more secure versions of Android, due to the sheer fragmentation of the whole ecosystem. Equally, I've also had to replace the battery of that Android phone within the space of two years, due to it not lasting very well.
On the flipside, my supposedly CRapple iPhone 5S battery is still going strong considering its age and the number of charging cycles it's been subjected to. The software side of things is still great as it's supported still by Apple after all of these years and through multiple revisions of iOS, iOS 12 looks like it'll improve performance even on my rather old phone. Oh, and it's still secure as it's not some third party making the new iOS.
I'm not saying Android is bad here. When Google finally take control of what is essentially an open source operating system, which they're slowly doing, and finally make the base OS update-able regardless of hardware revision, as well as ensure the manufacturers get on-board with that (or get removed from the ecosystem), then perhaps they'll be good enough to consider. Until then I'll never touch another Android phone, because Apple do it better.
Iota
Inflation? Exchange rates? Supply and demand? Marketing fluff? Any of those reasons could apply to altering the pricing structure and the established norms of what consumers are required to pay for a product.
However in your defence, I understand the point you are trying in vain to make in regards to the more accurate pricing tiers being an established norm, and not some fictional pulled out of thin air figures. In that aspect you are correct and I agree that the pricing tiers and what actually defines a mid-range priced phone is already established (regardless of the actual specifications of the phones in that tier).
It isn't worth beating a dead horse over it though.
!! Someone who finally gets it!! Thank you!!
Iota
Yes, it's funny how this works isn't it?
I've owned a Sony Xperia smartphone, with hardly any software side support and resorted to having to work out how to upgrade to newer more secure versions of Android, due to the sheer fragmentation of the whole ecosystem. Equally, I've also had to replace the battery of that Android phone within the space of two years, due to it not lasting very well.
On the flipside, my supposedly CRapple iPhone 5S battery is still going strong considering its age and the number of charging cycles it's been subjected to. The software side of things is still great as it's supported still by Apple after all of these years and through multiple revisions of iOS, iOS 12 looks like it'll improve performance even on my rather old phone. Oh, and it's still secure as it's not some third party making the new iOS.
I'm not saying Android is bad here. When Google finally take control of what is essentially an open source operating system, which they're slowly doing, and finally make the base OS update-able regardless of hardware revision, as well as ensure the manufacturers get on-board with that (or get removed from the ecosystem), then perhaps they'll be good enough to consider. Until then I'll never touch another Android phone, because Apple do it better.
Definitely,the fragmentation on Android is an issue especially with lying companies like Motorola,but again something like my Huawei from 2016 has had all the relevant security updates already even if its a slightly older version of Android(7 something) and its over two years old,and hopefully another year at least. Its been utterly hammered due to extensive GPS usage with certain games.
The Android One handsets seem to be getting frequent updates and Xiaomi makes some in the low/midrange tiers. The Mi A1 is not bad at all for a lower end phone(even has a 50mm tele camera).
But that is the issue,a cheap Apple phone is now going to be £450 to £500,and not a bad spec but not state of the art - so even though I have thought maybe I could have gotten one and used it for 4 maybe 5 years,I could probably get an Android phone use it for 2 to 2.5 years,and then get another one and probably still spend less.
Its like one of my mates on a 5S,he pretty has decided not to bother upgrading since he considers the new iPhones as being too overpriced,so will use it until it probably goes kaput.
I honestly think Apple should have kept a £300 tier phone going - even if it was all plastic or something. Make the SOC on 14NM/16NM,etc.
Some people just prefer iOS due to its UI and don't really care if it is the latest tech.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
I honestly think Apple should have kept a £300 tier phone going - even if it was all plastic or something. Make the SOC on 14NM/16NM,etc.
Some people just prefer iOS due to its UI and don't really care if it is the latest tech.
http://www.argos.co.uk/browse/technology/mobile-phones-and-accessories/sim-free-phones/c:30147/brands:apple/price:%C2%A3200-%252D-%C2%A3250,%C2%A3250-%252D-%C2%A3500/opt/sort:price/You can still get a sim free SE / 6 / 6S for a reasonable price, although not brand spanky newest tech, still solid and still supported by Apple. I can see going forward that lower resolution phones will end up being end of life (like the 5S / SE).
However, a lower price tier phone should have been kept going. I would have loved to have seen the 5S / SE casing reused with new hardware inside for a reasonable price. They've missed a trick for those of us who simply don't want a massive screen and require something a little more solid (and I can live without wireless charging, so less glass…).
Still that said.. I am seriously considering buying the Xs as I can pick one up sim free for a shade more than the X (£899). I'll still be using the 5S though, as it would make for a great Roku remote with the headphone jack….
Iota
http://www.argos.co.uk/browse/technology/mobile-phones-and-accessories/sim-free-phones/c:30147/brands:apple/price:%C2%A3200-%252D-%C2%A3250,%C2%A3250-%252D-%C2%A3500/opt/sort:price/
You can still get a sim free SE / 6 / 6S for a reasonable price, although not brand spanky newest tech, still solid and still supported by Apple. I can see going forward that lower resolution phones will end up being end of life (like the 5S / SE).
However, a lower price tier phone should have been kept going. I would have loved to have seen the 5S / SE casing reused with new hardware inside for a reasonable price. They've missed a trick for those of us who simply don't want a massive screen and require something a little more solid (and I can live without wireless charging, so less glass…).
Still that said.. I am seriously considering buying the Xs as I can pick one up sim free for a shade more than the X (£899). I'll still be using the 5S though, as it would make for a great Roku remote with the headphone jack….
The thing is for a lower end SKU there is plenty of choice of screens,cameras,etc they could have used, to cut down costs,and having the SOC not on a leading node would make it much cheaper too especially since the Apple ARM cores are still some of the best ones around. The thing is although Tim Cook is a good moneyman,I just feel at times they have started to miss a few tricks(or even take a few more risks) when compared to when Steve Jobs was around. Apple for a longtime did have entry level stuff - one of the reasons why the iPod was so popular was partly down to this,or even Mac laptops.
I can understand why they and even Samsung to a degree are doing this as apparently people are keeping smartphones for nearly three years now,but I just feel they are underestimating the longterm threat of certain competitors. The more expensive phones get the greater the chance people might decide to keep it that bit longer,so its end up being a vicious circle IMHO.
peterb
preter_s
Funny how my 2013 Android can still do so much more than any iPhone, including what was only just announced yesterday, can do. Micro-SD card, replaceable battery, FM Radio, FM Radio recording, 3.5mm jack (which can work as the trigger my selfie stick, or external LED light trigger, or external condenser audio recording mic),
Funny how my 2014 Android LG G3 has 3GB RAM and higher resolution QHD screen than the “$750 for a sub 1080p display,3GB of RAM and a single camera. Bargain!”.
Funny how I can still flash the latest Android ROMs on both phones because I have rooted them. Funny how they still work as good as new once I slap in a new battery.
Funny how your CrApple would be barely working by now with that degraded sealed internal battery. Funny how you actually think that your 2013 crapple can run iOS 12 - without at least being severely crippled feature wise, like all old iPhones which would work like a tortoise if not hang
LG L3 replacement battery £29.95
https://www.4lg.co.uk/search.pl?query=BL-53YH
Apple iphone7 replacement battery £25
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/iphone/repair/battery-power
Just saying… :)
Never needed to root a phone because it does exactly what I want out of the box - rooting compromises security and some security critical apps won't then run - but your choice of course - whatever floats your boat.
What? Your CrApple internal battery costs more than twice as much?
IFixit - LG G3 Replacement Battery Item code: IF303-025-1 US$14.99
https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Parts/LG-G3-Replacement-Battery/IF303-025-1Just saying… I change my battery in 5 seconds. Any time I want. Any time I notice a deterioration in run time. Way before it fails. By clicking a few mouse buttons and waiting for it to appear in my mailbox. Without having to go to a service centre.
On the other hand… You need to put your life on whole, whether the battery fails without warning or not, to travel to a service center, then hand your phone with all its sensitive personal data to some stranger… and for a few hours or even days by post not being able to lead your live or go about your work, whereby said service centre stranger copies all your naked photos from your phone to upload for the world to see… …
Get it yet? Just saying .. maybe you lot might learn to get it some day. Just being optimistic.
Just saying … if you do not know what rooting is, its because you have no clue what it is. Its also because you don't know what the open source community is about. You don't even know what your phone is doing because you have no control over what apps are installed by the manufacturer and the carrier.
Without root, you cannot uninstall all their adware/bloatware/crapware. You probably don't even know that iTunes is bloatware/adware. You also cannot control how the apps work. Or how they send data about you to the cyberworld using your money through your mobile data plan. Which explains why you always gets whacked with data overage surcharge bills.
Once rooted, with open source root apps like open source Linux IP table firewalls, I can restrict ANY APP to using either WiFi ONLY or mobile data ONLY or both or none. I can make sure a calculator app NEVER gets to access the internet. AT ALL. So the developer cannot ever upload my personal data. I bet you don't even know that the moment you install an app from your app store, the developer immediately uploads your personal contacts data etc. to the dev's own servers.
I NEVER exceed my basic 3GB data plan, even though I am always online and a heavy power user. Even though my Android's monthly data usage is 50 to 70 GB. That's because all the heaviest bandwidth using apps like news websites, Youtube/Google Drive/Google Photos (yes, even Google's own apps) can be uninstalled or restricted to only use Wifi!
You don't even know what security means. The manufacturers and carriers propagate the narrative that rooting compromises security because they don't want you to uninstall their apps or restrict their ability to spy on you by uploading data anytime they want. Because they know consumers like you are stupid.
How do you even have security when you can't control what your phone and your apps are doing? The open source community has already thought about it, done something about it and the rest of us are already using the tools to improve our security (and phone bills). Just saying…
… you have lots to learn if you think your phone “does exactly” what you want out of the box. And to think that those are only the elementary things rooting allows… just saying.
preter_s
What?
I see a lot of unfounded points being made here, with a lot of assumptions added for good measure. We get it, you don't like Apple iPhones. That's really all you needed to say.
preter_s
What? Your CrApple internal battery costs more than twice as much?
snip —>.
You are an angry chappie aren't you?
Of course you can get some dodgy third party battery - I was comparing manufacturer's genuine parts.
It's no accident that some apps like banking will not work on a rooted phone because of the security issues.
I'm quite enthusiastic about open source software, but the fact that something is open source does not mean it is secure. Take shellshock for example - a vulnerability that existed for 30 years before it was discovered.
But you have a lot to learn about constructive and civilised discussion on a forum - but hey ho - rant on…
Just saying :)
BTW battery replacement costs are going to go up from £25 to between £45 to £65 next year so it might be an idea to get the battery replaced this year.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
BTW battery replacement costs are going to go up from £25 to between £45 to £65 next year so it might be an idea to get the battery replaced this year.
Already planned. :). (Not that it needs it really as it is only two years old, but might as well before it goes up)
peterb
Already planned. :). (Not that it needs it really as it is only two years old, but might as well before it goes up)
Always prudent - it should help extend the life of the phone.
preter_s
On the other hand… You need to put your life on whole, whether the battery fails without warning or not, to travel to a service center, then hand your phone with all its sensitive personal data to some stranger… and for a few hours or even days by post not being able to lead your live or go about your work, whereby said service centre stranger copies all your naked photos from your phone to upload for the world to see… …
Are there really people who's life would be on hold and not be able to work or live their life without a phone?
Myss_tree
Are there really people who's life would be on hold and not be able to work or live their life without a phone?
So it seems :(
I'd just use the handover onto my iPad…. :p. (if it was really that essential).
But I try not to be a slave to my tech - it's there to serve me, not the other way round.
Myss_tree
Are there really people who's life would be on hold and not be able to work or live their life without a phone?
I suppose if your phone is your primary computing device and you have no laptop,desktop or tablet and social media is very important to you?? :p
At the risk of winding Cat up some more …. it's always possible to introduce an extra price band, especially where branding/fashion/designer-status are involved.
But I agree with the GT40 argument, to a point at least.
Suppose I have my eye on a £15,000 Patek Phillippe watch, and they bring out a new version with a different colour winding knob, at £18,000. Will it sell? Probably, because some people just have to have the latest, and have enough money that they really, absolutely do not care about cost.
But, would that new P–P watch have any impact on £2000 Rolex, Ket alone a £200 Seiko or a £20 Timex? I can't see how, personally.
Designer or “iconic” products set, IMHO, their own orice points based on what the market will bear, not what other companies do.
And on the subject of money, about 20 years ago, I had a discussion with a salesman in Maranelli's about a new Ferrari, the 355 Spyder. I asked how long the wait was and was told, about 2 years BUT …. they have a nice metallic blue (which was the colour I fancied) coming in next week. Barely used, under 1500 miles, a year old.
Why? I asked. Is the ash tray full?
Because it's Aug 1st, and one of our in 4 days and one of our regulars trades in the ‘old’ model very year, because he won't drive one on last year's plate.
It would have saved me about £15k over a new one, and more important, saved me a 2 year wait, but I was surprised the price difference wasn't more than that. Why would it be, he said, ‘cos even at that price, it’ll sell within the week.
When you get to expensive, iconic and luxury items, normal rules don't apply. It's certainly not about the rest of the market, but is often about how many of an “exclusive” product can be made, and even about limiting production precisely to keep exvlusivity … and pricing accordingly.
Saracen
At the risk of winding Cat up some more …. it's always possible to introduce an extra price band, especially where branding/fashion/designer-status are involved.
But I agree with the GT40 argument, to a point at least.
Suppose I have my eye on a £15,000 Patek Phillippe watch, and they bring out a new version with a different colour winding knob, at £18,000. Will it sell? Probably, because some people just have to have the latest, and have enough money that they really, absolutely do not care about cost.
But, would that new P–P watch have any impact on £2000 Rolex, Ket alone a £200 Seiko or a £20 Timex? I can't see how, personally.
That does not wind me up,as that was kind of my point - I was talking about mainstream and the low end of the market not elite tier products and elite tier phones can cost as much as $20000:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCfClc8ssOUIf you start basing low end mainstream pricing on the cost of elite tier phones which have a far wider potential pricing range(I mean you could make a phone which costs a few million quid for billionaires),then I mean you could say a low end phone like a Nokia 3310 could cost $1000(instead of under $100) based on the fact a “new” $20000 tier exists.
I have a passing interest in hifi and photography and you probably are quite aware of how expensive the top end can go. Leica and its special editions,or even their lenses where a Leica 50MM/F2.0 costs £2000 and a Nikon 50M/F1.4 is sub £500. Yet even a trusted camera brand like Nikon does not price its 50MM as high as Leica can,since its targeting a more mainstream volume market,and Leica has long targeted a far more affluent level of photographer,and also to put it mildly is also seen as a bit of a fashion accessory.
Even in the Nikon range they have lenses which cost silly money for professionals,costing £1000s but this has not much bearing on the price of the kit lenses or the step up lenses either,since they are targetted towards pros who make money and rich amateurs. Then you have another tier above Leica with people like Hasselblad and Phase One who make medium format systems which make Leicas look cheap. For example the base Phase One XF 100MP system costs $50000.
Hifi where you can get a NAD C316 amp for £300,or a Sennheiser HD650 is under £350,yet I have listened to £500000 separates system or a headphone system which cost £120000.
Just because these exist does not mean the stuff which is orientated towards a more mainstream purchaser(like the cheaper products),have to suddenly rise in price to meet them(say double or triple),especially since the mainstream tends to be more budget constrained by its very nature,and I was not talking about Apple phones in general too,but bog standard phones,since Apple realistically is a high end brand,as opposed to someone like Samsung who sells high end stuff too but sells loads of lower end stuff.
There is a reason why the vast majority of smartphones worldwide are Android - not because it is better,but because its on average far cheaper. For instance if you look at smartphone revenues,despite Android being 77% of the market,Apple has 51% of actual smartphone revenues having only 20% of the market. That by extension to me says,they sell the most high end phones,and most Android phones sold are probably cheaper products,more orientated towards the mainstream and lower end segments of the market,ie,purchasers are more price sensitive.
Agreed on those examples, Cat, and as you may know, I have similar interests , photography and hifi. So I get the point.
As you said, it was my point too.
Elite products certainky have little or no bearing on budget, mid-range, etc, and while high-end changes can have minimal effects on low-end, it will be minimal IMHO.
For a start, those that can't afford elite, or even high-end, still can't whether those prices remzin the same, or quadruple.
A similar effect works the other way round too, though with an exception. Tjose that could afford elite tier products aren't necessarily willing to pay that much, but those that csb both afford it and are willing to pay it aren't likely to know or care much about budget-levdl pricing.
For example I visited Ferrari, Aston Martin, Mercedes, BMW, etc but I didn't visit ….oh, Yugo. Or Kia. I visited Ford …. briefly. Very briefly. They just didn't have what I wasclooking for, so I didn't care whether a sporty Focus was £10k or £30k. I wasn't interested, either way.
But conversely, my last cellphone cost me £5 in Asda, and no way, and I mean no way would I pay a grand for one. Oh, and I'll happily buy George jeans at a few quid each (£5, last time I stocked up) but I'd die before you'll catch me waeting designer jeans at £150 a pop. And that wouldn't change no matter how much money I had.
My point? Both elite-tier end budget-end products are priced by a variety of factors, but they're priced for their target market and while I might be target market for high end cars (or I was back then, at least) I'm certainly not for high-end phones.
Oh,,and by the way, my experience (from friends) is that those that really serious money often regard money in a very different way to those that don't, and way, WAY different to those that are trying to make out they do. In part, that's why they're a different market - they value things differently. Usually.
EDIT - That goes double fir those that have always had money, but much less so for those that came into it later in life.
CAT-THE-FIFTH
Well I would say less now if you want a higher end SOC - the Xiaomi F1 is 300 Euro,and has a SD845,64GB of storage and 6GB of RAM,240FPS 1080p,etc.
Even putting that to a side,I cannot even understand how a £400 phone is considered low end,just because Apple/Samsung decided to jack up prices of their top end in the last two years.
Although having said that this is the interwebs and a tech forum - I suspect anyone having a GTX1060/RX580 is considered low end by many due to £1000 to £3000 Titan class cards,even if Nvidia/AMD considered them performance/mainstream and the marketshare figures support this.
I own a Xiaomi Mi6 and it has served me very well and I hope it will do for many years to come. It has a 835 and a brilliant camera and all for £300 last year, less than half the price of Apple's ‘flagship’. I'd recommend anyone not bothered about Apple's ecosystem and not wanting to get ripped off by Samsung to look into some of the lesser known Chinese brands. It really puts into perspective the price inflation that has been going on for these fashion accessories.
Iota
preter_s
What?
I see a lot of unfounded points being made here, with a lot of assumptions added for good measure. We get it, you don't like Apple iPhones. That's really all you needed to say.
We get it that you are totally clueless about IT, which is why you use the iCrap. We get it.
Picked up my XS Max last week, really happy with it.
preter_s
We get it that you are totally clueless about IT, which is why you use the iCrap. We get it.
I think it's about time you went and sat on the naughty step for a few days to cool off.
Bang….. Oh, was that your foot ?
See you in a week and a bit. Hopefully attitudes may mellow given the break time.
